Italian Grand Prix 2012, Monza - Race 13/20
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
There youth programme isn't really delivering though. They dropped their first two drivers for not being Vettel, and the current incumbents at STR aren't exactly setting the lower end of the field alight.
The 2009 Brawn was a freak car.
You had massive rule changes and the two top teams of '08 going at it until 40 seconds after the chequered flag fell in the last race, diverting resources from the next years car.
The Brawn itself was a hugely costly project with Honda using both '08 and '09 resource to work on the car, with up to 4 wind tunnels to work on it at some points. After they pulled out all the money went and the team size was massively reduced leaving a very good car at the start of the season (benefiting from a favourable ruling on the regs) but very little money or resource to work on it.
Yep well put. Even with all that pre-season development work, it still looked very simple on the outside. If you compare all the front wings in 2009 (especially Ferrari) to the following year or two it is a big difference.
mercedes recruited tons of people early last year so the team size is probably back up yet this years car is probably worst than last years in comparison to the leaders...
i dont think 4 wind tunnels and a billion would do much for them without a magic bullet.
which brawn constantly seems to be grasping for rather than building a good base car to work with.
they are finally testing our the ferrari/sauber/rbr/mcl style exhaust system at the young drivers test though
they should have copied it earlier in the year.....
Well in the last 20 years as I was saying, Williams built great cars for at least 2 years on the trot, so have Benetton, Renault, Ferrari and Red Bull. You could say 98/99 for Mclaren but I'd put the point they would never had won the championship had MS not broken his leg. They won it because Irvine was ****.
That's not the point I was trying to make, the point was that's the year Mclaren got this reputation for being awesome car developers, when in fact it's just the season Brawn couldn't do anything with their car from silverstone onwards.
Mclaren are no better than Ferrari or Red bull, but on the back of a season starting so poorly they are all of a sudden seen as great developers. I'd say they need to get their **** together and build better cars out of the box as they did in 98. For all their resources and previous works backing they have never recovered from Newey going.
Exactly, said in one sentence what took me alcohol fueled and not sleeping for 36 hours 3 paragraphs
The '09 McLaren was the worst car on the grid at the start of the season yet ended as arguably the fastest. They didn't just pass the stagnant Brawn but also Ferrrari and Red Bull (who certainly had the fastest non double diffuser car at the start of the season).
Going by your logic the slightly dodgy Ferrari from the start of the season should be the fastest car out there, but on raw pace it is still behind the McL and RBRs. The Lotus appears to have slipped backwards on the last couple of races, but that could be the nature of the tracks as much as Fezza moving forwards.
Dude seriously.
I commend your love for Button, but that's just a ridiculous thing to say.
Last year the RBR car was one of the most dominant cars produced in recent years and Vettel was performing like a champ. He was going for all sorts of records last year and Button simply isn't on the same level as Vettel.
Most drivers had given up on last year's title race at the mid way point. THAT is how dominant Vettel was.
Even if Alonso was driving last year's McLaren, he wouldn't have beaten Vettel. The RBR car was just too quick. And Vettel was in irresistible form.
Gave him a good car, so he would sign a contract.
Contract then signed, "Right guys, slow his car down. He's back to whipping boy status"
Your post makes no sense. For starters the Mclaren in 09 was not the worst car on the grid. I have no idea what the second paragraph of your post is about. We are talking about Mclarens mythical development pace not Ferrari.
You seem to have forgotten about Mclaren and Kers in 09 as well and how once they got to terms with that it helped them in 09 against teams not running it.
Forget all that BS then. Lets get down to the simple facts, which team would you have rather driven for in the last 20 years. Mclaren and their 3 drivers titles and 1 WCC, but you get the legendary development pace or Red Bull with equal championships in the last 2 years or Ferrari with 6 WDC and 8 constructors in the same period.
Development pace is clearly over stated or doesn't mean **** if you are building from a **** foundation.
I must admit it must be tempting for top line drivers. Don't worry guys even when we build a **** car by hungary when the title is all but over we will be fastest and win 1 in 4 races, after Vettel or MSc has won 8 of the first 12 races
It has amused me to watch the "haters" go with the one in four thing. It was quite patently not Ron's aim to win one in every four races, but a statistic he is quite rightly proud of - over a period of nearly 50 years, McLaren have won 25% of all the races they ever entered. I believe they've never had a season where they failed to score points, and with only one exception (2007 doesn't count), you have to look back to the mid nineties to find them out of the top three in the WCC standings.
Stirling Moss won 16 times from 66 starts (just a whisker shy of 1 in 4) - and he's not exactly a nobody in F1 terms. Jim Clark was one of the winningest drivers ever and he only won a third of the races he entered.
Stirling Moss won 16 times from 66 starts (just a whisker shy of 1 in 4) - and he's not exactly a nobody in F1 terms. Jim Clark was one of the winningest drivers ever and he only won a third of the races he entered.
Your post makes no sense. For starters the Mclaren in 09 was not the worst car on the grid. I have no idea what the second paragraph of your post is about. We are talking about Mclarens mythical development pace not Ferrari.
You seem to have forgotten about Mclaren and Kers in 09 as well and how once they got to terms with that it helped them in 09 against teams not running it.
Forget all that BS then. Lets get down to the simple facts, which team would you have rather driven for in the last 20 years. Mclaren and their 3 drivers titles and 1 WCC, but you get the legendary development pace or Red Bull with equal championships in the last 2 years or Ferrari with 6 WDC and 8 constructors in the same period.
Development pace is clearly over stated or doesn't mean **** if you are building from a **** foundation.
I must admit it must be tempting for top line drivers. Don't worry guys even when we build a **** car by hungary when the title is all but over we will be fastest and win 1 in 4 races, after Vettel or MSc has won 8 of the first 12 races
Worst car of the established front runners and title fighters then? I knew what he meant, you were just being pedantic.
Man of Honour
Button could win the title with only three wheels, he's that good at balance.
Soldato
He started in 3rd and finished behind Alonso who started in 10th? Its pretty obvious that he's second-rate even in terms of playing second fiddle to Alonso. I guess the Tifosi just don't like him - but then I don't speak any Italian...
