Italian Grand Prix 2012, Monza - Race 13/20

Mr Men · 11 Sep 2012 at 08:57

DRZ said:
He started in 3rd and finished behind Alonso who started in 10th? Its pretty obvious that he's second-rate even in terms of playing second fiddle to Alonso. I guess the Tifosi just don't like him - but then I don't speak any Italian...

Finishing right behind Alonso is being the perfect second fiddle though?

Skeeter · 11 Sep 2012 at 09:08

timbob said:
It has amused me to watch the "haters" go with the one in four thing.

I think dannyjo22 is using it in jest

dannyjo22 · 11 Sep 2012 at 09:15

Skeeter said:
I think dannyjo22 is using it in jest

Yes, hardly a hater when I'd love Hamilton to win the title this year. I found it funny that Ron used and had clearly thought about it as an excuse to winning one constructors in the last 20. Especially when previously he used to spout about the constructors being the priority.

Again I don't hate him either and think mclaren badly need him back at the helm. It seems on this forum section now unless you are 100 blinkered and banging the pro drum you are a hater. There's no middle ground, hater or fan boy. It's getting a bit tiresome and stifling any decent debate IMO

dannyjo22 · 11 Sep 2012 at 09:20

MissChief said:
Worst car of the established front runners and title fighters then? I knew what he meant, you were just being pedantic.

No I wasn't. How the hell am I supposed to know what cars people mean in a sentence if they say for example the Ferrari started 2012 as the worst car on the grid. How am I supposed to know they only meant against Red Bull and Mclaren? Especially if they don't say against other front running teams or even allude to which team they consider are front runners :confused:

Skeeter · 11 Sep 2012 at 09:41

dannyjo22 said:
There's no middle ground, hater or fan boy. It's getting a bit tiresome and stifling any decent debate IMO

You discussion hater!

Its a valid point though, its getting stupid.

Jono8 · 11 Sep 2012 at 13:07

FrankJH said:
Last season JB could easily have won the title without LH in the team (at the very least it would have been a **** of a lot closer) so Im not sure your arguement really carries much weight.

HA!

arknor · 11 Sep 2012 at 13:15

FrankJH said:
Last season JB could easily have won the title without LH in the team (at the very least it would have been a **** of a lot closer)

aslong as you dont remove LH and stick barrichello in the other car sure

FrankJH · 11 Sep 2012 at 13:45

sunama said:
Dude seriously.
I commend your love for Button, but that's just a ridiculous thing to say.
.

and for once why not actually quote what I said rather than changing the sentiment completely

Without having to fight LH constantly , JB would unquestionably have been "a **** of a lot closer " to the WDC , and he may have even a few more GP's in to the bargain

trickycurve · 11 Sep 2012 at 13:52

Frank, seriously, think about it. JB came 6th on three occasions where Vettel won for starters. JB also retired from one of only two races where Vettel didn't make the podium (and it was a 4th place to boot, so not exactly horrific). Additionally, the only race Vettel retired from (Abu Dhabi), JB came 3rd and he wasn't even close to winning that race, especially given he would have had to get by Alonso. I'm sure there's a bunch of other stuff to refer to, but to be honest it's not worth it because I know you will try to big JB up until the cows come home.

I think you're being slightly deluded about JB's chances last season, dude.

Jono8 · 11 Sep 2012 at 14:00

FrankJH said:
and for once why not actually quote what I said rather than changing the sentiment completely

Without having to fight LH constantly , JB would unquestionably have been "a **** of a lot closer " to the WDC , and he may have even a few more GP's in to the bargain

No , nope, nada, NO

ZG002 · 11 Sep 2012 at 14:10

The only way anyone else was winning last season was if Vettel hadn't turned up tbh.

MooMoo444 · 11 Sep 2012 at 14:28

FrankJH said:
and for once why not actually quote what I said rather than changing the sentiment completely

Without having to fight LH constantly , JB would unquestionably have been "a **** of a lot closer " to the WDC , and he may have even a few more GP's in to the bargain

How many times did JB finish 2nd to LH's wins?

How many times did JB finish behind LH, but ahead of SV also?

Skeeter · 11 Sep 2012 at 14:36

Zero
Zero

Yes, I'm bored.

JB was 122 points, almost 5 wins, behind Vettel.

MooMoo444 · 11 Sep 2012 at 14:39

Then I fail to see how JB would have challenged SV for the title, given that races LH wasnt there to compete for, SV would have just won.

arknor · 11 Sep 2012 at 15:12

button barely won a championship when he had clearly the best car for that season.

he whined about balance and how the car could be so bad...

i dont see how he could have won the wdc in the mclaren last year either.

Duke · 11 Sep 2012 at 16:43

arknor said:
button barely won a championship when he had clearly the best car for that season.

he whined about balance and how the car could be so bad...

i dont see how he could have won the wdc in the mclaren last year either.

He had the quickest car for the first half of the season. He said himself that he tensed up as the season went on, doesn't help when the car wasn't being developed though (how quick Mclaren and Red Bull came back was great). Don't forget that Williams and Toyota had the double diffuser as well, how many races did they win between them again?

Not sure about the bit where he said the car was bad? In the race edit it was something along the lines of 'what a beauty of a car you built'.

What's your beef with Button then?

Mr Men · 11 Sep 2012 at 17:17

Others did catch up but Brawn did still have a competitive car in the 2nd half, Rubens won at Nurb, they had a 1-2 at Monza, so I think it's fair to say Brawn had the best car that season.

arknor · 11 Sep 2012 at 17:17

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8169525.stm
guess he was still trying to find the balance even back then

i dont have a beef but thinking he can win the WDC last year if it wasnt for hamilton is crazy talk.

he had what was the best car for that season and barely won , barrichello almost beat him ffs.....

dont see button as being someone who can win a championship unless its with the clear best car

Duke · 11 Sep 2012 at 17:36

arknor said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8169525.stm
guess he was still trying to find the balance even back then

Great, he used the word balance in an interview. I'd like you to find other words to describe the same thing? I don't see why people on here get so hooked up on it. Its no different to another driver saying they couldn't get the tyres to work or had the wrong gear ratios or whatever... so either you want the drivers to talk non-pr or what? Seem to moan when they come out with Ron-speak and moan when they give a more technical reason.

i dont have a beef but thinking he can win the WDC last year if it wasnt for hamilton is crazy talk.

That's what FrankJH was saying? I wasn't commenting on that.

he had what was the best car for that season and barely won , barrichello almost beat him ffs.....

Code:

Driver 				Points
1 	Jenson Button 		95
2 	Sebastian Vettel 	84
3 	Rubens Barrichello 	77
4 	Mark Webber 		69.5
5 	Lewis Hamilton 		49
6 	Kimi Raikkonen 		48

This is on the old point system remember. Not quite sure how Barrichello almost beat him?

dont see button as being someone who can win a championship unless its with the clear best car

Generally the quickest cars win Championships? That's how it works.

Skeeter · 11 Sep 2012 at 17:42

Duke said:
Generally the quickest cars win Championships? That's how it works.

Yeah, I was thinking that? How often has someone not in the best car, or one of the best if its a close season, won the title?

Hardly something to use against Button exclusively.