i dont know as its looked the fastest car at a few races.
people seem to think the renault is a dog when its clearly far from it
Italian Grand Prix 2012, Monza - Race 13/20
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i dont know as its looked the fastest car at a few races.
people seem to think the renault is a dog when its clearly far from it
Kind of disappointed with the result but I didn't think lotus would do well on the high speed track. Best Place for lotus to loose RG
Perez was class. And he took points off lotus' competition. Wonder where he will go after sauber? Would be nice if he stayed. Always could come to lotus! Lol
Hopefully the far flung less full throttle tracks will help lotus
Perez was class. And he took points off lotus' competition. Wonder where he will go after sauber? Would be nice if he stayed. Always could come to lotus! Lol
Hopefully the far flung less full throttle tracks will help lotus
I stand corrected.
Blimey I never realised that Hamilton had nipped ahead by 2 points.
I will have to take back what I said about both McLaren drivers and only apply it to Button.
Indeed.
So, you have to take a look at the performance of the cars across the entire season.
When you take into account that in the first 3 races McLaren had the fastest car and in the last 3 races they were also the quickest car. That's 6 races out of 13 races so far. Williams were fastest in another race. Merc was quickest in another. And RBR were quickest in the rest.
By my reckoning McLaren, in terms of car speed, on average, are certainly in 1st place followed by RBR in 2nd, and then Ferrari.
He's certainly doing a fantastic job. No doubt about it.
What's so funny about that.
Senna did have the 2nd best car and could not come close to winning the title in 1992 (and I think in 1993, too, though Bennetton were also moving forward in 1993).
So?
I said I didn't think the Ferrari was THAT far behind, which if you're ranking them 3rd overall, you obviously agree with?
People still seem to think this is 2011, when cars were "good" and "bad", and not 2012, where the top five teams are separated by fractions of seconds, different cars are on top on different weekends, and race pace can be completely the opposite of qualifying pace.
Eh? Not sure what you mean bud... Im saying hes going to win the championship with a car thats not the best of the field..
Not sure what you're eh-ing about sunama!
ive posted why its a ridiculous comparison twice now in the spa thread but you keep not reading it lol. so here it is for the THIRD time...
No one i repeat NO ONE would have been able to beat the Williams of 92. That car was arguably the most dominant car in F1 history because of its active ride height suspension system. At certain points in the season they were lapping 2 seconds a lap quicker for the entire race than the next fastest cars (and that was when they were cruising...). If i remember correctly they lapped the entire field in one race (possibly Imola). Ricardo Patrese finished second in the championship that year ahead of Senna and he is the definition of an average/poor f1 driver !
Comparing Alonso beating supposedly better cars this season to Senna not being able to beat the Williams of 92 is laughable, the difference between the best car this season and the Ferrari is pretty much non existent compared to what it was like in 92. Its a bizarre and illogical comparison to make.
From the tyres to the EBD ban, the sport nowadays is setup in order to equalise the cars as much as possible, the performance difference is minor whereas in 1992 it was just a straight up no holds barred technology race, you just can't compare completley different eras like that.
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Was Brazil they lapped the field, and totally agree that Williams was unbeatable, probably the most dominant car ever produced in terms of laptimes and ease to drive it on the limit, the McLaren in 88 was not too shabby either tho and lapped everyone as well I am sure, and Ferrari in 2002 and 2004 were very dominant.
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Caporegime
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Mclaren had the fastest car in qualifying early in the season but it was pointed out by most that it wasn't the car with the fastest race pace. In fact Hamilton and the team generally said that they tuned the car far too much for qualifying and suffered from lack of race pace.
In previous seasons we've had tires that can go as fast as the car can at points really, this season its about preserving tires more than maybe ever before. Race pace even at the end is so far off qualifying pace its a joke.
Looking at say Aussie 2007 you have fastest lap in the race that beat the fastest qualifying time set in Q2, in 2012 you have over a 4 second difference between fastest lap in the race and fastest qualifying time.
That difference seems bigger pretty much every year. Being fastest in qualifying hasn't meant much at all in comparison to race pace. The Red Bulls have qualified WELL down and been insanely competitive in race pace, the Ferrari the same, Mclaren have basically never done that, the Merc's, the Mclaren and sometimes the Lotus have been able to show better qualifying pace than race pace while the Ferrari and at times the Red Bull haven't been able to but are FAR stronger in comparison during the race.
This is because if your car is built to do race pace laps at for example 1:29's but can't break 1:26 in quali, but another car can do 1:25's with ease in quali but goes around in the race at 1:30+.... which car is faster, race pace and the Ferrari has probably had more races at the top of the pack than anyone also a aero package that seems to make them pretty hard to overtake and pretty good at overtaking themselves.
I would say the Ferrari has been more consistently in the top 1 or 2 cars than any other team. If they had been better in quali Alonso would already have won the title probably as the car has been so strong in race pace. I wouldn't call it the third best car at all, for me its 1st or 2nd, and they are all pretty close.
I'd say most races of the season fall into fastest to slowest , Mclaren, Ferrari, Red Bull.... or Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren.... once you add the Mclaren mistakes into their races they qualified or had one of the stronger cars and for me the Ferrari has been the car to be in all year.
Sure, meh in qualifying, but the best race car/pit team to have under you.
The thing this season as far as the Ferrari is concerned is how much Alonso has been flattering the car and/or how much Massa has been 'insulting' it (for want of a better word).
Would that Williams race be the one where the McLaren qualified nearly 0.5 seconds faster?
Are you forgetting the '88 McLaren?
As to lapping the entire field the '98 McLaren managed that in Oz (with both cars) yet though that was an extremely fast car it wasn't 'dominant'.
That's because they banned the third pedal which had been passed legal as soon as they realised Mclaren was going to spend the season lapping the field.
It likely would have been dominant if not for that.
Good point - but the Ferrari has also been better on average across all tracks compared to both the other teams cars who have had tracks where they have also performed very badly at.
I think any driver would prefer that compared to higher peaks and lower troughs
Alonso has greatly benefited from Red Bull and McLaren making a mess of things, if the season was true to pace then I don't think he would be leading the title, but DNF's for Lewis, penalties and poor pitstops have greatly affected his points tally, McLaren for me have been the fastest car on average. Then Ferrari and Red Bull seem to interchange with each other.
http://www.marca.com/2012/09/12/en/more_sports/1347484613.html
Interesting:
Then, in a more serious tone, he heaped praise on Lewis Hamilton: "Hamilton is the only one who is capable of winning without having the best car, which is evident as the others only win when they have a good car".
Interesting:
Then, in a more serious tone, he heaped praise on Lewis Hamilton: "Hamilton is the only one who is capable of winning without having the best car, which is evident as the others only win when they have a good car".
I would agree with your first point - without a doubt Alonso has benefited.
The Ferrari wasnt as bad as press wanted us to believe, and while FA flattered it slightly - Massa made it look far worse than it ever was too.
I would still say the Ferrari was the best car given all conditions / circumstances & tracks.
(and the new scoring system definitely benefits those who score most frequently even if they rarely win the very big points)