Italian Grand Prix 2015, Monza - Race 12/19

Duke said:
Because we had 1 overtake per race.
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And the biggest viewing figures\sponsor's in the history of F1. So something was right.

And 2007 & 2008 WDC was won buy 1 point. Maybe that was it? But I agree with Webber..F1 is pants now.
 
Webber is also trying to publicise a book.

He said there are too many pay drivers in F1, but he must have missed some of the most popular times - 1995 alone probably had more pay drivers than there have been in the last 3 seasons combined, and the mid-late 90s is probably considered one of the best eras in F1 history.
 
deuse said:
And the biggest viewing figures\sponsor's in the history of F1. So something was right.

And 2007 & 2008 WDC was won buy 1 point. Maybe that was it? But I agree with Webber..F1 is pants now.
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Jesus, seriously, I mean seriously? again?

Viewing figures were high because it was on free tv. Revenue has massively increased, the teams couldn't afford to spend what they do if it was still on free tv, we'd be on basic as hell engines and the same cars. Part of F1 is the development race. F1 without changing formula's and having an aero then a engine then an aero race isn't F1.

Viewing figures going down when tv goes subscription is ENTIRELY NORMAL, 100% expected and means NOTHING in terms of if F1 is liked or not. If it was on free tv today it's likely viewing figures would be significantly higher than in 2008, but don't let that stop you or the million times people explain this to you.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Jesus, seriously, I mean seriously? again?

Viewing figures were high because it was on free tv..
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Citation needed.

I did mention sponsorship. Why do you think they are staying away? Oh that's right not many watch it now.

I'm glad the alpha men(motogp) are on this weekend. Go Rossi :)
And I have no doubt the track record will broken a few times as well :)
 
As much as sky. BBC and everyone else say Ferrari are closing or can challenge, they can't. And due to rules Merc will almost certainly be ahead next year, start with a better engine and can spend tokens. Others can close the engine gap faster, but then it takes more and more tokens for diminishing returns, so the chance that anyone matches that Merc engine until a rule shake up, is well some where between non existent and extremely unlikely.
 
Ferrari are closer than you think on the engine just their chassis isn't anything particularly special. It takes several years to refine a aero package and with a new engine and fairly big changes they almost started fresh this year, you really can't get the same kind of performance as a concept refined for 3-4 years as RBR/Merc have done.

The 2017 shake up will give a lot of teams a chance to start well on the new rules alongside Mercedes. The aero rules weren't a huge change between 2013-14, it's a bigger change now. Mercedes has a car that works perfectly with that aero design, the suspension is awesome, the brakes are awesome, they know more about the tires than anyone else and have better tire life.

Wider tires will change how brakes work, tire life, aero around the tires, cooling and the change in wings will change the entire basis of the aero. This will be more of a leveller than I think people realise. Of course it could still be Mercedes who hit the ground running on that and everyone else could screw up.

Ferrari may have the strongest start to 2017 as they look to have effectively 'cheated' heavily in terms of firing their aero staff, sending them to Haas who can run unlimited wind tunnel/cfd work this year. You can bet Ferrari are both perfecting their 2016 design AND trying multiple mock ups for 2017. The final specs aren't known but a rough idea is outlined and if they simply test several various models they'll get a very very good headstart on aero understanding of that concept. Expect a far far stronger aero package from Ferrari next year and a good start to 2017.

It's also worth remembering that Ferrari only started their current engine concept last year. They may well close the gap again next season, Mclaren should close the gap but no where near enough. Think Ferrari like performance step but starting much further back.

The limiting factor on engine development to this point and for next year is the engineers ability to make a good engine rather than the inability to be able to change it enough.
 
Glaucus said:
As much as sky. BBC and everyone else say Ferrari are closing or can challenge, they can't. And due to rules Merc will almost certainly be ahead next year, start with a better engine and can spend tokens. Others can close the engine gap faster, but then it takes more and more tokens for diminishing returns, so the chance that anyone matches that Merc engine until a rule shake up, is well some where between non existent and extremely unlikely.
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There won't be tokens next year. Ferraris chance to catch up ends on the 28th Feb.
 
No tokens? Mercedes have next year in the bag too then. I also don't see Mercedes being far back with the new rule changes either. Next year they will be able to shift their focus as early as any of the other teams, they are far enough ahead. I hope it is closer though. Hamilton is certainly laughing. He will have three championships in a row by then.
 
That passed me by, thought there was tokens every year, well that sucks.
I did wonder why Merc looked so happy with new engine and the hints of only changing fuel and oil would bring much more improvements to this new engine. as neither of those are restricted.
It also explains why RBR are so eager to switch supplier. No way is Renault going to be competitive. I can see them pulling out with, now I know that, which leaves lotus on a knife edge.
Unless there's negotiations to get more tokens.
 
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The tokens are the result of a loophole Ferrari spotted in the rules where the FIA forgot to add a date for the homoligation.

The way the V6 rules work is the engine can be upgraded between seasons using the tokens, but is then frozen for the whole year. This deadline is the 28th Feb.

So I was a bit wrong, there are tokens, but they can only use them up to the end of Feb, and then the engine is frozen for the whole year. So Honda, Ferrari and Renault could catch up, but the timeframe they have is significantly reduced.
 
this_is_gav said:
In road racing they have a small square bale in front of a lamp-post so, in racing terms, if you're going to pull the "alpha" card, at least do it properly.
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You still can't do a decent come back......Keep trying.
But I see the motogp guys broke the lap record AGAIN today and F1 is 5 seconds slower..even with the run offs :D:D
 
Well to be fair, F1 cars do have to be able to run for 2 hours and carry the fuel to do so. MotoGP is nuts though, some of the best racing you will watch.
 
deuse said:
You still can't do a decent come back......Keep trying.
But I see the motogp guys broke the lap record AGAIN today and F1 is 5 seconds slower..even with the run offs :D:D
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The comeback being that road racing is more hardcore than neutered circuit racing? Isn't that basically fact?

Anyway, half the viewers tuned in to MotoGP last year compared to 2013, regardless of records. Isn't that more of a loss than F1 has suffered here in recent years?
 
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