Soldato
Fingers cross that LH new engine goes bye bye to make the race/season more interesting
Italian Grand Prix 2015, Monza - Race 12/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120666
Honda's arrogance knows no bounds. They're totally unwilling to admit their engine is garbage, won't apologise for it and attempts by McLaren to help them with their own expertise or resources are rebuffed.
Sick and tired of them tbh. Honda's much heralded return has become one of the worst things to happen to F1 in recent years. Now I just wish they'd give up and bugger off again.
Honda's arrogance knows no bounds. They're totally unwilling to admit their engine is garbage, won't apologise for it and attempts by McLaren to help them with their own expertise or resources are rebuffed.
Sick and tired of them tbh. Honda's much heralded return has become one of the worst things to happen to F1 in recent years. Now I just wish they'd give up and bugger off again.
Soldato
Yeah because we all want the undeserving driver to win through luck
It's a sport. If it was a driver's sport then they'd all be driving the same car prepared by the same team, unreliability wouldn't exist and the sport would have died decades ago.
Very few will want any driver to walk the title, no matter which flag he pretends to fly. How many cheered when Schumacher tied up the championship half way through the 2004 season? It was utterly **** viewing, even if he deserved it.
Caporegime
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You do realise that pretty much everything suggests Mclaren insisted on this utterly compromised design for packaging reasons. They basically forced Honda to take this approach and also really nicely take their money, free engines and blame them publicly for the crappy performance.
Mclaren let the press herald the return and talk it up, Mclaren are letting Honda take all the blame, but we all know Ron had his size zero idea.
99% of these problems are down to Mclaren, after Ferrari made the same mistakes and gave warning to underestimating MGU-H requirements they went the same route to satisfy Ron's OCD and achieve the size zero. If that engine package was bigger and had a better balanced/sized turbo and MGU-H the car would be far faster and more reliable. Try and cram more into a tighter space with more heat and you get worse reliability, insist on rushing the design forward, you get worse reliability, insist on repeating mistakes other teams proved were a mistake, get what you get.
There have also been rumours Honda were keen on a 2016 return but Mclaren weren't keen on getting an alternative engine for another year and basically backed Honda into a corner, 2015 or nothing. If true that is yet another monumental mistake.
The arrogance on show here is primarily from Mclaren and specifically Ron.
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Caporegime
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Neither are trapped, either is experienced enough to know what was coming. Money talks, Alonso signed one of the biggest deals on the grid. No one, absolutely no one with any sense see's rushing a complex piece of engineering as smart. They both signed new deals with Mclaren for money.
Ron's arrogance could easily have made him believe they might be competitive this year, even Ron probably realises they won't be competitive next year either now. Considering the lost sponsorship, the incoming loss of constructors money even though Honda appear to be covering half the wages(of Alonso or both, not entirely clear) it would save them a bunch of money to release both and have Mag/Van in the car at a fraction of the wages, would save them and Honda probably £30-35million next year.
Massa is apparently only in the 3-5mil income range, Button apparently on 8 going to 12m for next year, Alonso supposedly on 25-35mil(often quoted in € so maybe £25mil), these are amounts no other team can come remotely close to offering them.
Ron's arrogance could easily have made him believe they might be competitive this year, even Ron probably realises they won't be competitive next year either now. Considering the lost sponsorship, the incoming loss of constructors money even though Honda appear to be covering half the wages(of Alonso or both, not entirely clear) it would save them a bunch of money to release both and have Mag/Van in the car at a fraction of the wages, would save them and Honda probably £30-35million next year.
Massa is apparently only in the 3-5mil income range, Button apparently on 8 going to 12m for next year, Alonso supposedly on 25-35mil(often quoted in € so maybe £25mil), these are amounts no other team can come remotely close to offering them.
Soldato
Lewis for the win 
....I hope lol
....I hope lol
Man of Honour
Crikey, Rosberg has it all to do tomorrow. The Ferrari doesn't seem too far off here. Hamilton must be giddy.
Soldato
If Lewis doesn't win , I would be OK for Kimi to take it ......just as long as Lewis is in front of Nico
Soldato
Hamilton is going to be in trouble if he doesn't nail the start as you can be sure that Vettel and Kimi will off their lines like weasel poop off a greased shovel.
Soldato
gp3 fully airborne was awsome
Sorry but nope.
Whilst he'd obviously try to maximise his salary, money is far from the most important thing to Alonso - he wants another title.
If Mercedes offered him a seat with zero salary, he'd jump at it immediately.
He moved to McLaren because he couldn't see Ferrari getting anywhere and wanted to "get in on the start of something big" with McLaren. I think he's still smarting from the huge mistake he made in not going to Red Bull just before they became dominant and feels Vettels four titles could easily have been his. Lewis made a similar move with his (much criticised at the time) move to Mercedes just before they started dominating. Alonso wanted to do the same with McLaren and it's all unravelling.
Vettel and Hamilton both had time on their side and it only took a couple of years for the teams to start dominating after they joined. Alonso is far older and it's looking like it'll take McLaren a lot longer than that to get back to the top. As Brundle said in yesterday's commentary, there's no way Alonso thought he'd be starting at the back by Monza.
He's trapped because McLaren aren't going to be competitive soon enough and there are no other competitive seats available.
Caporegime
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My point was at the end of last season he had the option of 25+ million at Mclaren or leaving F1 for some other racing, he at that stage chose to take 25mil. He may take a seat at Merc if it was available, but it isn't. He actively chose to sign a contract at Mclaren for a huge salary rather than go off and do something else even when he had to know precisely how crap Mclaren would be this year.
Someone who knows the deal before they sign isn't trapped. Also all the rumours point to him wanting to stay at Ferrari. He started asking for more control/money/power during contract negotiations with Ferrari. As usual his guys started talking to other teams to see what other options were available and use those options to strengthen negotiations with Ferrari(or get a seat at a better team). Ferrari had already publicly had a go at Alonso and forced him to apologise over criticising the team the year before. Behind ALonso's back they grabbed Vettel, RBR signed Kvyat and Alonso was left as a third driver for Ferrari but being told he could leave without penalty if he wanted.
At this point he signed a huge deal with Mclaren when I would bet absolutely no one within the sport thought they would do anything other than fail miserably this year.
He got himself in this position by angering Ferrari, causing them to replace him, then signing for Mclaren for money rather than competition. He could have waited a year and seen what seats were available this year. By all accounts he was basically trying for a one year deal at Mclaren but the only way Ron would give him the seat and a big contract was to tie him to a multi year deal. He said yes, he didn't have to, he knew the deal. Feeling sorry for him getting rich while taking a well paid crap drive is ridiculous.
Someone who knows the deal before they sign isn't trapped. Also all the rumours point to him wanting to stay at Ferrari. He started asking for more control/money/power during contract negotiations with Ferrari. As usual his guys started talking to other teams to see what other options were available and use those options to strengthen negotiations with Ferrari(or get a seat at a better team). Ferrari had already publicly had a go at Alonso and forced him to apologise over criticising the team the year before. Behind ALonso's back they grabbed Vettel, RBR signed Kvyat and Alonso was left as a third driver for Ferrari but being told he could leave without penalty if he wanted.
At this point he signed a huge deal with Mclaren when I would bet absolutely no one within the sport thought they would do anything other than fail miserably this year.
He got himself in this position by angering Ferrari, causing them to replace him, then signing for Mclaren for money rather than competition. He could have waited a year and seen what seats were available this year. By all accounts he was basically trying for a one year deal at Mclaren but the only way Ron would give him the seat and a big contract was to tie him to a multi year deal. He said yes, he didn't have to, he knew the deal. Feeling sorry for him getting rich while taking a well paid crap drive is ridiculous.
Both the Red Bull seats, a Ferrari seat, at least one Williams seat, plus almost any seat he could buy his way into were available to him. If what you say is correct then Alonso won't be at McLaren next year.
The only one of those who are genuinely competitive are Ferrari and he can't go back there after only a year, plus Vettel would do his utmost to block it even if he tried.
He wants a drive which stands a genuine chance of winning a title in the next few years, close isn't good enough. At present the only contenders aside from Mercedes look like Ferrari, ironically. He's been asked about Ferrari's performance this year and how he must find it a bit galling to see them doing so well just after he leaves but his response has always been that they're still not competitive with the Mercedes so it's irrelevant and I actually believe him.
A car that finishes second all the time is of no more interest to him than one that finishes last. He was runner up to Vettel in the WDC three times and doesn't care about doing it again, he wants to win.
At present, no car other than the Mercedes stands a realistic chance of winning the title so it's kind of irrelevant where he is. The question then becomes which team will rise to challenge Mercedes and eventually take the titles from them? Ferrari may be looking more and more competitive but, in reality, they're still a way off. Alonso has bet that McLaren, whilst useless right now, have the potential to rise above Mercedes.
The problem is that this bet is starting to look a bit risky, at least within the timeframe of Alonso's remaining years as a driver. I'm willing to bet that one or more other teams will rise to match or beat Mercedes within the next year or two, and before McLaren do (if they do!) and, from that perspective, Alonso is trapped in a team going nowhere.
EDIT:
Also worth mentioning that, should Lewis seal the title again this year, I don't think it's going to do much for Alonso's mood. As I said above, I think he looks enviously at how Vettel and Hamilton "lucked" into their teams just as they were about to dominate and to have both of them with more titles than he has would grate.
He wants a drive which stands a genuine chance of winning a title in the next few years, close isn't good enough. At present the only contenders aside from Mercedes look like Ferrari, ironically. He's been asked about Ferrari's performance this year and how he must find it a bit galling to see them doing so well just after he leaves but his response has always been that they're still not competitive with the Mercedes so it's irrelevant and I actually believe him.
A car that finishes second all the time is of no more interest to him than one that finishes last. He was runner up to Vettel in the WDC three times and doesn't care about doing it again, he wants to win.
At present, no car other than the Mercedes stands a realistic chance of winning the title so it's kind of irrelevant where he is. The question then becomes which team will rise to challenge Mercedes and eventually take the titles from them? Ferrari may be looking more and more competitive but, in reality, they're still a way off. Alonso has bet that McLaren, whilst useless right now, have the potential to rise above Mercedes.
The problem is that this bet is starting to look a bit risky, at least within the timeframe of Alonso's remaining years as a driver. I'm willing to bet that one or more other teams will rise to match or beat Mercedes within the next year or two, and before McLaren do (if they do!) and, from that perspective, Alonso is trapped in a team going nowhere.
EDIT:
Also worth mentioning that, should Lewis seal the title again this year, I don't think it's going to do much for Alonso's mood. As I said above, I think he looks enviously at how Vettel and Hamilton "lucked" into their teams just as they were about to dominate and to have both of them with more titles than he has would grate.
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