It’s all kicking off in Bristol

[Raikiri]

Not wanting to pay for something i do not want or need is the dumb?

Large scale... yep.

My taxes pay for the fire service. I have used them zero times.

My taxes pay for roads, I don't drive.

My taxes pay to educate kids, I don't have any nor do I intend to.

All of these things benefit society as a whole, and therefor benefit me.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Not wanting to pay for something i do not want or need is the dumb?

You'd set society back millenia if turning your back on those less able to contribute at a point in time was the perogative. The rich would have to live in castles in case the vast 'poor' revolted. So yes, you so need to pay for things that don't directly benefit you. And should see value in that.

 

[Mekrel]

Society is better with publicly funded resources, otherwise you end up like the States where the merit of your life is based on your ability to afford care. There's always going to be a disparity between the rich and the poor based on the fact we can't all be CEOs.

 

[d_brennen]

Compared to Starmer, Davey or god forbid, Sturgeon, it’s a worthy sacrifice.

Bit like complaining about the **** sandwich you got to the **** hotdog guy.

How anyone thinks any other party could have done worse, idk. This government has made has made more wrong decisions than a coin flip generator.

Not wanting to pay for something i do not want or need is the dumb?

Yes, because A - you might need it one day and B - civilisations look after their weakest members. Why do you think you can comfortably make this idiotic statement? Your own majestic prowess? No, its the civilisation underpinning the excess you live in at work.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Not wanting to pay for something i do not want or need is the dumb?

How worn out is your copy of Atlas Shrugged?

 

[simc1978]

The whole Bristol thing really ****** me off, the tribalism of all the parties reactions is so predictable. It's totally going to be exploited by the Tories as another excuse for a final powergrab under the guise of coronavirus. The rest of us lose some more freedoms and get to pickup the bill for some new police vehicles and the clean up.

 

[robfosters]

Bit like complaining about the **** sandwich you got to the **** hotdog guy.

How anyone thinks any other party could have done worse, idk. This government has made has made more wrong decisions than a coin flip generator.



Yes, because A - you might need it one day and B - civilisations look after their weakest members. Why do you think you can comfortably make this idiotic statement? Your own majestic prowess? No, its the civilisation underpinning the excess you live in at work.

We’ll never know. I think another party may have done worse, you don’t think they could.

Fact is, either of us could be right or wrong. We’ll never know.

 

[platinum87]

For the betterment of society as a whole, and so you can pretend not to be a sociopath.

Just FYI, in real life people do not see you as a sociopath because they project their own emotions and beliefs on you

Large scale... yep.

My taxes pay for the fire service. I have used them zero times.

My taxes pay for roads, I don't drive.

My taxes pay to educate kids, I don't have any nor do I intend to.

All of these things benefit society as a whole, and therefor benefit me.

You use the roads, even if you dont drive, along with the pavement. Im not talking about cutting every single possible thing.

Yes, because A - you might need it one day and B - civilisations look after their weakest members. Why do you think you can comfortably make this idiotic statement? Your own majestic prowess? No, its the civilisation underpinning the excess you live in at work.

If i need it one day i can pay for it, or not.

The excess i live in? clarify this please?

How worn out is your copy of Atlas Shrugged?

Its not the ending i would have chosen, my one is far more grim.

 

[Raikiri]

You use the roads, even if you dont drive, along with the pavement. Im not talking about cutting every single possible thing.

In the same way as you use the NHS, and have a state pension and benefits... well, benefit you.

Just because you aren't claiming benefits doesn't mean they aren't helping you. About 1/3rd of the population claim benefits of some kind; imagine the level of crime if those people had no support.

I also noticed you ignored 2/3 of what I said...

 

[d_brennen]

If i need it one day i can pay for it, or not.

The excess i live in? clarify this please?

The delusion you have that you aren't part of the 90+% of people in this country?

 

[platinum87]

In the same way as you use the NHS, and have a state pension and benefits... well, benefit you.

Just because you aren't claiming benefits doesn't mean they aren't helping you. About 1/3rd of the population claim benefits of some kind; imagine the level of crime if those people had no support.

I also noticed you ignored 2/3 of what I said...

I am not opposed to public spending, Its just on far fewer things, making far more things optional.

I am not ignoring anything, its just too much to get into the details, what changes i would make etc.

Most of what you said is reasonable, however with education there is a distinction which comes down to student loans. 80% of them wont get paid back, the cost is higher than the benefit. That is a cost to the taxpayer.

I paid £3k per year, this then tripled to £9k. In what world does tuition triple?

They can do so because the government guarantee's student loans. That is why everyone and their dog has a degree. Its what brings down the value of the degree in the first place. Similar is true for many other thing.

I do not use the NHS. I am saving for my own pension, ISA/ SIPP, and pension with my employer. I plan to retire before state pension age.

 

[platinum87]

The delusion you have that you aren't part of the 90+% of people in this country?

If by this you mean i am poor, i have already said previously

And what about it? If i could opt out of all of them and pay less tax as a result i would do so. Obviously, earning more means you get less value, earning minimum wage means you are getting great value.

Supporting those things because i am poor, therefore they are great value would be in my best interest, in that example i am supporting that someone earning more than me should pay the difference. That is not morally correct to do so.

There is of course a difference, but not to me. I dont need any of those things. Why should i pay for it?

Your attitude is the exact problem we have, that people vote on what benefits them, not what is best. You assume i do the same, but i do not.

 

[d_brennen]

If by this you mean i am poor, i have already said previously

Didn't say you were poor, interesting you thought that though.

Loop back to A- because you may need it one day and B - because civilisations look after their weakest members.

You may or not be poor in fish fingers right now, there's no future guarantee of fish fingers. And even if there is, who are you to decide who has but one fish finger?

 

[platinum87]

Didn't say you were poor, interesting you thought that though.

Loop back to A- because you may need it one day and B - because civilisations look after their weakest members.

You may or not be poor in fish fingers right now, there's no future guarantee of fish fingers. And even if there is, who are you to decide who has but one fish finger?

90% of people who consume more than they give? is that your meaning? You're refusing to explain anything you mean.

I already said, if i need it, i'll pay for it, or i wont and i wont have it. Simple.

Of course there is no guarantee, as above.

I am not deciding who has anything. You realize by arguing against me, it is you who are deciding who has what.

 

[d_brennen]

90% of people who consume more than they give? is that your meaning? You're refusing to explain anything you mean.

I already said, if i need it, i'll pay for it, or i wont and i wont have it. Simple.

Of course there is no guarantee, as above.

**** me, decipering this is going to take multiple seconds.

I asserted you were not part of the 10% richest in this land and part of the 90% that you most likely are.

I am not deciding who has anything. You realize by arguing against me, it is you who are deciding who has what.

No, you are arguing why I shouldn't pay for your cancer treatment in 10 years. Do you not see the equivalence?

 

[Reality|Bites]

I think the problem Plat has is that he doesn't know any other world, much like the rest of us.
Since we're on a computer forum i'll say it like this of the top of my head so don't rip it to shreads lol...Imagine todays teenagers, only growing up with windows 7 and 10
They would find fault with it not knowing how much easier it is to use a computer now, not knowing how cumbersome it was when we first got home computers.

 

[platinum87]

**** me, decipering this is going to take multiple seconds.

I asserted you were not part of the 10% richest in this land and part of the 90% that you most likely are.



No, you are arguing why I shouldn't pay for your cancer treatment in 10 years. Do you not see the equivalence?

I am in that 90%. And what i said above applies. It does not matter if i am in the top 1% or the bottom 1%, i do not make any ideological decisions based on my personal circumstances.

Its why the society we live in is flawed, where a politician promises X and Y so people vote for them, absolutely no consideration to what is the correct thing to do.

----

Yes, exactly thats what i am saying. How is that "deciding who has but one fish finger"? I decide nothing.

And why on earth should you pay for my cancer treatment???

 

[Reality|Bites]

The only problem I have with the NHS system is that we have to pay for people with self inflicted condition be it smoking, drinking or eating too much.

 

[FoxEye]

And why on earth should you pay for my cancer treatment???

So should people who can't afford treatment just be left to die?

The fact is, the top 50% or 20% or 5% can *easily* afford to contribute to society. Be it the NHS or anything else you could mention.

There is no reason to demand we all pay less tax. The tax bill is not choking anyone.

For your cancer patient, your tax $ could be the difference between life and death.

Whereas to you, it's the difference between a £200/night hotel or a £300/night hotel.

And that's without stating the obvious - that nobody is a "self-made man", and everybody benefits from the state-funded resources we all take for granted. If you can't see it it's a lack of imagination.

 

[platinum87]

I think the problem Plat has is that he doesn't know any other world, much like the rest of us.
Since we're on a computer forum i'll say it like this of the top of my head so don't rip it to shreads lol...Imagine todays teenagers, only growing up with windows 7 and 10
They would find fault with it not knowing how much easier it is to use a computer now, not knowing how cumbersome it was when we first got home computers.

The only problem I have with the NHS system is that we have to pay for people with self inflicted condition be it smoking, drinking or eating too much.

My problem is that I think unemotionally, and end up writing in such a way to trigger people to react emotionally.

Explaining what i think in short statements is not easy, and i dont think its possible. Even if i write huge walls of text people would not fully read before responding at the first thing and then quoting out of context.

Self inflicted or not, as i said in my response to foxeye, what relevence is that to you?

Keep in mind both smoking and drinking are taxed to oblivion, so much so it pays for itself. Eating too much, sure, thats not taxed at all really. In the future you can expect a ration card payment system, where once you exceed X or Y, the price doubles or triples.

But this thread is about riots in Bristol. People are smashing up the very things their taxes pay for. Let them pay for their own local services so i dont have to pay for it.

I didnt have any option to vote for Boris Johnson. People argue voting is important, i can agree only in theory. but not in practice.