It's infuriating that they don't specify salary.

ChroniC

ChroniC

ChroniC

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
10,213
I absolutely hate looking at job posts that don't list salary.
I hate employers who say we're not looking for someones who's more concerned about wages than the role.
What world do they live in? Since its not the one where prices keep rising and people need to make ends meet, no one goes to work to make their employer richer for fun. I don't want to keep applying for similar roles to the one I have to the have to feel guilty about asking what the salary is.

This rant could go on for a very long time so I'll cut it short and ask. Is there a reason that this has become the norm? Drives me ******** nuts.
 
Good recruiters have a guide to salaries for most professions. If an employer is trying to underpay in this age of information them they really are silly.
 
Welcome to my world, I'm applying for jobs in mainland Europe and its a right pain in the bum most dont state salary.

I can't apply the same rule as I do when applying for jobs here in the UK, if they don't state salary then its crap pay. As some of the salary offers I had after interviews in mainland Europe are dame good.
 
Think we have all been on that bus. Agency's are ten a penny, if they will not tell you then i just tell them to jog on. If they ring back its auto 5% on the rate :) bloody agency's are shocking especially when then spend 90% of time on linkedin bigging themselves up.

As for employer's its in their interest to pay you as little as they can. Just straight for the juggler if its not fair on you and wastes everyone's time.
 
billysielu said:
I also hate when they wont say who the company is. Why on earth would someone apply for a job at an unknown company?!?
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They do that so you don't go direct and bypass the agency. I have lost jobs because the recruiter doesn't want to pay huge fees. Always best to try and workout who they are if you can.
 
I like it when a recruiter calls me and doesn't specify both salary range and company and then pushes me to apply... I once was like, sure go for it... then they were pissy when I found the salary was utter garbage and I didn't want to meet the client after they arranged it. I told them, but they didn't listen! **** recruiters are just ****.
 
Don't feel guilty about asking about salary/range, the recruiter is likely to ask what you're currently on fairly early on in the process anyway.

ChroniC said:
They do that so you don't go direct and bypass the agency. I have lost jobs because the recruiter doesn't want to pay huge fees. Always best to try and workout who they are if you can.
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That can be a bad idea, if a company gets the same applicant more than once, from different sources then that application could well end up in the bin in order to avoid any hassle.

Better to just make sure you know where your application is heading before agreeing to it being submitted. A recruiter with a relationship with the hiring manager is generally going to be a better move than applying via some recruitment portal, having to be filtered by HR etc..
 
It's annoying in cases where you need to fill out a extended application form and/or want to use a decent covering letter as you could be wasting everyone's time. At least if it is via an agency you can clarify range early doors before you get too far down the line.
As for bypassing recruiters I don't think it is worth the hassle; personally when hiring people the origin of application makes no difference and if we need to pay an agency fee then so be it, I would never reject a candidate who came in that way.

SPG said:
As for employer's its in their interest to pay you as little as they can
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It's not quite as black and white as that. I actually don't want my team to be massively underpaid because then I am liable to them having their heads turned by other opportunities, or feeling undervalued. In terms of overall budgets it doesn't really make a material difference what they get paid so long as it is within a sensible range.

Yes clearly the 'bean counters' will want to minimise the expense ratio but the hiring managers actually putting an offer forward will be more concerned about getting the right person in and a few grand here and there isn't going to change that.
 
I don't find it's during the application phase but if your down to the last 2/3 they won't consider you if your all on equal footing if your there's a 4k fee on your head.
 
I've never really got to a position where I've had multiple 'identical' candidates though; in my mind if I reach the end of the process and we can't choose between multiple candidates then I've messed up somewhere (I can appreciate some people may get a higher volume of applicants and shorter hiring process, especially for more junior roles or less niche roles, making this more likely). I've hired people with agency fees in excess of £10k before and it never crossed my mind to rule them out on the basis of that.
 
I find this frustrating, but lately I've been looking for Salesforce specific roles, which have pretty much all had clearly stated salaries.
In Austria I believe you are legally obliged to state the minimum salary for the position, which is useful as it gives you a starting point.

I got my latest job via a specialist recruiter, during our first conversation he asked me for my salary expectations, and none of the roles he suggested to me were below that figure. They also publish a salary survey dossier which is useful for knowing what you are approximately worth in the market.
 
Usually companies who don’t disclose salaries for the reasons stated in the OP are doing so because they are not paying the going rate for that particular role so they’re trying to lure you in.

M-Sport in Cumbria are a good example. They have jobs advertised but no salary info and when you ask for details they say they’re only after people who are interested in the role rather than the salary. I don’t know how they get people to apply unless it’s people who are already on minimum wage, which is a bit backwards as a lot of the roles are definitely more than the minimum.

Why do they think people will be willing to leave a job with a known salary to something completely unknown? People have bills, families and hobbies to maintain.

Don’t get me started on recruitment agencies, how they are even a thing for day to day jobs is beyond me. The amount of money they manage to extract is insane.
 
andy_mk3 said:
I instantly dismiss any job advertised without a listed salary. Does by head in.
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Problem is I see it on almost every single one. I have been looking for weeks too.
I also seem to find that a lot of roles seem to be massively under priced or massively over estimated on skill.

For instance they want a graphic design (fine that's a 22k min) then they want that person to be a photographer and a Web developer and also know cgi and video, for the same money or less. Madness.
To me if you want a designer then pay 22 if that person also has all those skills then they have intrinsic value and the salary goes up 2-5 per say per skill. I'd expect 30 minimum.

I guess in a saturated market people become desperate, but frankly some employers take the ****.
 
ChroniC said:
I also seem to find that a lot of roles seem to be massively under priced or massively over estimated on skill.
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Had that with a job interview a few months back. The JD looked great, Desktop Support Engineer.

Manage and maintain Windows based desktops and laptops
Build and repair computers if needed
Customer service skills
Scripting knowledge
General computer administration
Networking knowledge

Got the 2nd interview and I had to a technical test, which was based on Python. I only know basic Powershell scripting and never seen Python scripting. The JD never mentioned anything about Python, also in the interview they mentioned wanting someone who also had programming knowledge which wasn't on the JD either.

Of course I didn't get the job but to me they over estimated on skill because this role is actually 2 separate roles. The previous person who was in the role had learnt programming, scripting in his spare time and loved to tinkle with computers. They thought they could get someone just the same. To me you are either a programmer or desktop support engineer, not both.

This was back in September and the vacancy is still live on their website.
 
I've actually emailed companies advertising positions with no salary asking what kind of salary band they are looking at. I've stated that it's not worth wasting my time or theirs to go through an interview process if in the end it's not high enough to meet what I am currently earning + travelling.

I've never had a negative response from that question, many just state that it depends on the experience of the candidate, others ballpark it, others just give a max.

And yes, I've applied and won a job after sending an email asking for salary info. it was even raised after my interview that it showed I was serious in considering the role.
 
ChroniC said:
I don't find it's during the application phase but if your down to the last 2/3 they won't consider you if your all on equal footing if your there's a 4k fee on your head.
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That is rather unusual, perhaps with small companies? With larger firms you'll often find that they agree in advance to work with specific recruiters for a particular position. It would be incredibly short sighted for a hiring manager to sabotage their own recruitment process and hire a weaker candidate as a result of some one off fee being paid.

malachi said:
The previous person who was in the role had learnt programming, scripting in his spare time and loved to tinkle with computers. They thought they could get someone just the same. To me you are either a programmer or desktop support engineer, not both.
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I'd perhaps consider changing that view... isn't "DevOps" supposed to be all the rage now? If you're talking about a bit of scripting then the guy is hardly a programmer anyway, that can fall well within the domain of a support analyst. If they're not able to fill the role still then that is perhaps more an indication of them not paying enough for the role or being too tight to engage a decent recruiter than there not being support people out there who have some ability to write a bit of code.
 
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