I've given up on LPG - the future is Electric.
- Thread starter Hawk Tuah
- Start date
...Obviously
The point is that you cannot drive something super quick like a v12 s-class economically if you wanted to. Which is why powerful gasoline cars are so impractical and the performance is out of reach of most people.
Last edited:
Soldato
Big batteries and motors are good from an efficient point aswell when you consider braking and regen. The setup is ready to deliver and harvest large amounts of power and hence capture more braking energy.
D helps also as the car effectively has two gear ratios and hence can chose the most efficient for cruise, typically FWD for that.
D helps also as the car effectively has two gear ratios and hence can chose the most efficient for cruise, typically FWD for that.
I currently driving an R56 MINI Cooper S in London. I cover no more than 8,000 miles a year max.
I've been making a real effort over the years to be more green which was the main motive behind booking an extended test drive of the Nissan Leaf from Tuesday until Sunday next week. I'm sceptical of the actual green credentials though:
- What happens with the battery when its eol?
- Most electricity is still generated from fossil fuels
- The car has a higher carbon footprint when manufactured than the typical ICE.
For the reasons above I wonder whether it's more green to keep running my MINI.
I've also been looking at insurance quotes and there is no EV (Zoe, Leaf, Ioniq) I can insure for under £950
. Most ICE cars are much cheaper for me to insure considering my age, NCB and post code (London). Am I missing something?
I've been making a real effort over the years to be more green which was the main motive behind booking an extended test drive of the Nissan Leaf from Tuesday until Sunday next week. I'm sceptical of the actual green credentials though:
- What happens with the battery when its eol?
- Most electricity is still generated from fossil fuels
- The car has a higher carbon footprint when manufactured than the typical ICE.
For the reasons above I wonder whether it's more green to keep running my MINI.
I've also been looking at insurance quotes and there is no EV (Zoe, Leaf, Ioniq) I can insure for under £950
. Most ICE cars are much cheaper for me to insure considering my age, NCB and post code (London). Am I missing something?
Soldato
I admire your desire to be green.
To assist your thinking re the points made:
1. Battery recycling is coming on leaps and bounds. There's also re-use as domestic or industrial storage.
2. In Q3 2016 50% of electricity came from nuclear and renewables. This will only increase. source
3. Possibly - but if were to change cars anyway then it would make sense to go electric this time. Also, with the restrictions potentially coming in for ICEs in cities such as London you would also be future-proof.
Do you use your car mainly for regaularly travelling in and around london, or occcasionally travelling out of london.I currently driving an R56 MINI Cooper S in London. I cover no more than 8,000 miles a year max.
I've been making a real effort over the years to be more green which was the main motive behind booking an extended test drive of the Nissan Leaf from Tuesday until Sunday next week. I'm sceptical of the actual green credentials though:
- What happens with the battery when its eol?
- Most electricity is still generated from fossil fuels
- The car has a higher carbon footprint when manufactured than the typical ICE.
For the reasons above I wonder whether it's more green to keep running my MINI.
I've also been looking at insurance quotes and there is no EV (Zoe, Leaf, Ioniq) I can insure for under £950
If it's the former, then electric should be ideal as long as you have a driveway, or a charging post that's not otherwise being used nearby.
If it's just for occasional long journeys, I'd stick ICE for now until the longer range EVs come out.
To and from work in west London with the occasional 122 mile journey to family home. I have a driveway but we're renting and I begrudge wasting the free fast charger install on a rented property. I could get a charger installed at work with minimal fuss.
It's not the right time for me to be getting a new car, but I'm dead set that my next car will not be ICE.
I haven't bothered with a fast charger, I just installed an external socket. The car fully charges overnight - which is as fast as I will use it.
Check the route to your family home. If there is a rapid charger mid route, then EV will work fine.
[TW]Fox;30427116 said:
The performance is almost a happy freebie: the battery pack can deliver a phenomenal amount of current and the motor efficiency won't change significantly to run a large motor at 50% where a smaller motor might have needed to run at 90%. Easy answer: fit the bigger motor and watch the marketing team beaming from ear to ear.
Blistering performance is also a useful marketing tool; the 2+tonne saloon car which can nip the heels of Italian supercars is undoubtedly helping the perception of electric cars. Compared to the G-Wiz it's certainly a step up in driving dynamics!
Even on smaller cars, the torque from 0mph is very useful; my father went from a 1.6 tdci Focus to a 24kW Leaf. He remarked that the instant power delivery in the Leaf means that nipping out of a busy junction or roundabout is very easy; a gap that would have been left due to being a bit marginal in the Focus is managed with no sweat now.
Regarding the range of his Leaf, it was chosen since he often does many days of 40-50 miles total mileage, so can easily charge at home and drive "normally" (Heat/AC, keeping up with traffic). The leaf is doing about 15k a year, but being a two car household there is also a diesel Audi for use when a longer run is needed.
Having driven the Leaf, it's certainly different - you really don't get a sensation of the speed (what felt like 40mph turned out to be 65!), it's quite effortless. I make a long motorway run once or twice a month on average - and right now the cost of getting an electric second car is just slightly more expensive than sighing and doing the 20 mile each way commute in a diesel. But we're getting closer and closer to it being acceptable; for me the tipping point will be when I can make it from Manchester to London stopping for one recharge on the way.
To expand on a couple of points earlier: Traffic jams and stop/start traffic are somewhere that an EV drivetrain excels. A given petrol car might manage 40mpg on a motorway run, but might only accomplish 20mpg while stopping/starting in traffic.
For electric cars the vast majority of the battery effort goes to the tractive power, and usually it's more efficient to go slower. So you'd get broadly speaking similar range to be in slow moving traffic or cruising at 60-70.
Second to that is heating / AC; if you're blasting these then that can draw some power and take a slice off the range. However, on the subject of winter heating - it's actually more efficient to set the climate control to try for a lower target temperature then make up the difference using the heated seat. To each their own, but (inefficiently, I admit) I quite like doing that even in my ICE car.
For electric cars the vast majority of the battery effort goes to the tractive power, and usually it's more efficient to go slower. So you'd get broadly speaking similar range to be in slow moving traffic or cruising at 60-70.
Second to that is heating / AC; if you're blasting these then that can draw some power and take a slice off the range. However, on the subject of winter heating - it's actually more efficient to set the climate control to try for a lower target temperature then make up the difference using the heated seat. To each their own, but (inefficiently, I admit) I quite like doing that even in my ICE car.
I have two lady friends who may be looking for new cars in the near future.
Neither are in the habit of making long journeys.
This thread made me think of suggesting that they look at EV's
Girl A, does make the occasional long journey to visit her brothers, but even that is within the "One Way" range discussed here and if she was able to recharge before coming home this would make the trip possible.
Girl B never makes long journeys, but she does make nice regular daily journeys of around 30 miles round trip.
It occurred to me that, "B" in particular is right in the EV ball park. "A" rather less so, she uses her car so little and infrequently (She is quite happy to walk up to anywhere up to three miles away from home unless she is in a tearing hurry or has to carry stuff) that the advantages of an EV would be massively swamped by the higher capital costs.
We have only discussed this over the last 2-3 days but so far, "B" seems impressed with the Zoe (I got a brochure for her)
Any other suggestions
"B" quite likes the idea but is concerned at the higher purchase cost (Or even with the lower purchase cost, the high monthly battery rental)
Although she quite likes the idea, she is clearly concerned that it would be an expensive alternative to a corsa sized conventional car (What she has now)
Are EV's really now a practical alternative in this sort of case, or still only really the option for the early adopters who are willing to pay over the odds for the up-coming tech. (Or have some other special advantage to tip the ballance, such as inner London access charging or whatever)
Neither are in the habit of making long journeys.
This thread made me think of suggesting that they look at EV's
Girl A, does make the occasional long journey to visit her brothers, but even that is within the "One Way" range discussed here and if she was able to recharge before coming home this would make the trip possible.
Girl B never makes long journeys, but she does make nice regular daily journeys of around 30 miles round trip.
It occurred to me that, "B" in particular is right in the EV ball park. "A" rather less so, she uses her car so little and infrequently (She is quite happy to walk up to anywhere up to three miles away from home unless she is in a tearing hurry or has to carry stuff) that the advantages of an EV would be massively swamped by the higher capital costs.
We have only discussed this over the last 2-3 days but so far, "B" seems impressed with the Zoe (I got a brochure for her)
Any other suggestions
"B" quite likes the idea but is concerned at the higher purchase cost (Or even with the lower purchase cost, the high monthly battery rental)
Although she quite likes the idea, she is clearly concerned that it would be an expensive alternative to a corsa sized conventional car (What she has now)
Are EV's really now a practical alternative in this sort of case, or still only really the option for the early adopters who are willing to pay over the odds for the up-coming tech. (Or have some other special advantage to tip the ballance, such as inner London access charging or whatever)
I would only recommend an EV to someone who is capable of planning their route carefully - signing up to all of the fast charger suppliers, and remembering their login details, downloading the apps / getting their RFID cards.
EVs are exceptionally practical, but they're not quite as simple as just jump in, drive where you want, fill up on the way.
Nissan will allow you a 4 day test drive with a Leaf, so I'd suggest they try that first to see if it suits their needs.
EVs are exceptionally practical, but they're not quite as simple as just jump in, drive where you want, fill up on the way.
Nissan will allow you a 4 day test drive with a Leaf, so I'd suggest they try that first to see if it suits their needs.
Like i said,
"B" never travels more than 40 miles/day. I do not anticipate this changing much (Or at all) so route planning is unlikly to be an issue.
"A"'s vehicle usage isn't really suited to an EV. So it is moot.
#Now, that is a bit of a concern. Neither girl has a smart phone nor wants one either. Is this something that is needed for longer journeys??
Also is the cost to "rent" batteries (and charge them) going to cost more than they use in fuel?
I do a 25 mile round trip and it costs me about £4 a day in petrol. I only need to fill up about every 2 weeks.
It looks like it is fairly borderline (But that is quite impressive for an emerging technology)
But there are of course offsets. For now there will be VED advantages. How do Inscos treat EV's? (More/less). Can you get a grant for installing a charger? what are the routine servicing costs, etc (As I said, I haven't really had a chance to look into this)
I got that - but 'never' is quite unlikely. What if she want's to go on holiday and has to drive to the airport, or something you can't expect. When she realises she can't use her car (and I presume it will be her only car), she'll be venting her frustration on you for recommending it. It might work, but if she has a test drive, tests it out and likes it, then that takes the weight off your shoulders.
Neither of them even has a smartphone (and by that, I mean they're not the type of person to HAVE a smartphone).
All motorway fast chargers work using the Electric Highway app from Ecotricity.
All the Local Council chargers near me use Charge Your Car (which you need to subscribe to, and pay for a RFID card).
All Council chargers in Essex are Charge Point Genie, which you access through a website, and have to get £10 credit for before you can use.
Most chargers in London are Source London - which you need to register to.
Most the chargers I've found in Sussex are Polar, which is a subscription service.
And that's just my local area. It's not like pulling up to a service station, filling up and paying. There is a lot of pre-planning required.
Batteries - depends on the car. I own my batteries, so no rental or anything daft like that. In fact, I think Nissan have just announced that you can now buy the batteries outright on their cars that have a battery lease.
Not certain about the Zoe. The older ones might all be 'rented' batteries. The model out this year you have the option to own or rent.
Insurance - my insurance is more than the TT I was driving, but then the estimated value of the TT was a less than half. Until I get my full year renewal I don't know the exact difference.
Servicing - same as any car. On my trip computer it's got the service intervals (actually exactly the same as our 2005 Nissan). My next service is due at 16000. The last service was at 8000.
They're tax free, and will remain tax free after the forthcoming change (in fact, both my cars are tax free
)
Last edited:
Soldato
Renault did offer a Zoe i that meant you could buy the battery along with the car but given the relative popularity to lease the Zoe, leasing the battery as well wasn't much of a stretch given the combined cost was still low. Zoe i do occasionally pop up on Autotrader but be aware they are mislabeled about half the time.
This is something that really needs to be addressed. It is way more complicated than it needs to be because companies were given free reign to have a go at taking their slice of a very limited market. Add in the different charging rates and plug types and the number of possible combinations becomes stupid. The "zap map" is a joke too because it looks like there are stacks of options for charging until you factor in that yes a plug might be available... in a hotel, for paying guests only. Great!
I think we may buy another ICE car before going down the EV route as currently the only car my wife would consider is a Zoe and the battery rental alone is more than she spends on fuel. Considering that will probably push the purchase back to beyond 2025 (based on how long she tends to keep a car for) there should be some other options then.
Indeed. Why make something that is supposed to be encouraged so ******* hard!
All other things being equal, This is going to be the deal breaker!
(Neither of these girls (Well, they are in their 50's really) are going to want to spend a load of money buying a smart phone that they otherwise neither need nor want, so they can spend another load of money feeding it and then end up having to effectively log on to Google (or whatever) so they can use their car! FFS, who dreams up this sort of crap really!
(And neither would I for that matter!)
What is the obsession these day with making stuff that should be simple stupidly difficult!
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
That is an incredibly short service interval and isn't the same as any car at all. It's a fraction of the interval on the majority of cars.
Which is odd given it has no internal combustion engine so what exactly do they do with it every 8000 miles? Am I right in thinking the Tesla has no fixed interval?