I've Got Someone Sacked .....

Vonhelmet said:
Will he?
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He might not turn up to work drunk but no one is perfect. It might be a small thing or a big thing but he WILL make a mistake and the resulting actions of others will determine how much of consequence it will have on him.
 
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SteveOBHave said:
I'm sorry but I think the OP did right. The only one at fault here is the lad that made the choice to drink the beers and come into work. He chose to put the OP in a difficult place and ultimately risk his job. OP did nothing wrong.

Stop being uncharitable morons you lot.
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Afraid not a moron but as with everything there is context, for example why had the lad been drinking, was he having personal problems or was he just being stupid?

We don't know but part of being a good team leader/manager (and to an extent a friend or colleague) is understanding a situation and its context before making final decisions or undertaking actions that could lead to an outcome such as this one.

I stand by my earlier comments I don't believe the OP handled this situation as best as he could have (in fact far from it).
 
mrk1@1 said:
sorry but drinking 4 cans of beer before working with machinery is not a mistake, it is reckless stupidity.

doing something knowingly against your company policies and procedures which would result in gross misconduct is not a mistake at work.

mistakes at work are sending out a document with tracked changes still showing or stacking the goods in the wrong part of the warehouse.
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sanaxe1 said:
He might not turn up to work drunk but no one is perfect. It might be a small thing or a big thing but he WILL make a mistake and the resulting actions of others will determine how much of consequence it will have on him.
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to save me typing it again, re-read my above post, or the below

Vonhelmet said:
A mistake that constitutes gross misconduct?
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As stated I really wish I'd told him to go onto the sick, but I was put on the spot and had to make a decision quickly. The lad had drank 4 cans of 6.5% lager and said his last can was 3 hours before the start of shift. The lads been suspended , but over the last 10 years when this type of thing has happened before the lads have all been finished. I'm going to see the boss this afternoon and explain that this will have been a shock to his system , a wake up call and to take that into consideration , for what its worth.
 
Haggisman said:
Then it's entirely possible that he will be made to feel so unwelcome that he will be forced to leave.
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Possible if you're talking extremes which situations rarely come to. The most likely outcome is that the OP just loses face with his co workers and in turn trust and respect. It's unlikely that he's going to get bullied in to leaving as you're suggesting.

Haggisman said:
What other option would you have suggested? Considering both of the other choices I mentioned could have had much worse repercussions.
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The options as I see it are:

1) Tell him to go home sick and don't do it again otherwise you will be forced to report him and he will lose his job.
2) Let him enter work then report him and he loses his job.
3) Tell him to go home and then report him, he'll get a disciplinary but probably not lose his job.
4) Ignore it and let the guy work.

Option 1 has the slight risk of the OP getting a disciplinary later down the line, which if he's clever, he would be able to easily get out of. It's also very unlikely as he's already said he had a good relationship with the employee. The immediate outcome is that nothing changes with the OP, the employee keeps his job and hopefully learns his lesson. If it happens again then I agree the OP has no other choice then to report the employee but at least he has tried and if he does have to report the employee he wont have lost as much face with the other staff.

Option 2 is just going code red straight away. It's an extreme option that only worsens the two people in question's careers. It's also slightly irresponsible as it lets the drunk person on site and worse still the OP brought him on site. How will this look to his superiors?

Option 3 is technically the correct thing to do, but considering the environment and the relationship between the two people in question, not the best option for the OP's career and not the Option that I would have chosen.

Option 4 endangers everyone and is irresponsible. Worst choice.

I think Option 1 would have worked better for the OP in the long run. Remember, as you've said we can't predict the future, every possible outcome has a % chance of happening. Nothing is guaranteed.
 
GSXRMovistar said:
Afraid not a moron but as with everything there is context, for example why had the lad been drinking, was he having personal problems or was he just being stupid?

We don't know but part of being a good team leader/manager (and to an extent a friend or colleague) is understanding a situation and its context before making final decisions or undertaking actions that could lead to an outcome such as this one.

I stand by my earlier comments I don't believe the OP handled this situation as best as he could have (in fact far from it).
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OP learnt that another employee was drunk, OP fulfilled his responsibilities by reporting it to the people that make decisions. He is not paid to nor is it his responsibility to think, but to inform people that are paid to think and let them make the judgement.

When team leaders et al start over-thinking scenarios or thinking above their pay grade rather than just doing what they should, that's when things start getting complicated. Don't overcomplicate things by leaving them to people's judgement.
 
The guy turned up for work and admitted to his team leader he had been drinking. The very fact that he told the team leader this, and then still expected to work implies that he was relying on the team leader being complicit and accepting of his actions.

You did entirely the right thing. In fact if you had done anything different you would have been giving tacit approval for him to work under the influence and next time he would NOT have told you.

Sure, you feel bad about this guy getting sacked, but he deserved it fully. I suspect that those posters who suggest otherwise have little experience of the modern industrial workplace.
 
Tobeornottobe said:
The guy turned up for work and admitted to his team leader he had been drinking. The very fact that he told the team leader this, and then still expected to work implies that he was relying on the team leader being complicit and accepting of his actions.

You did entirely the right thing. In fact if you had done anything different you would have been giving tacit approval for him to work under the influence and next time he would NOT have told you.

Sure, you feel bad about this guy getting sacked, but he deserved it fully. I suspect that those posters who suggest otherwise have little experience of the modern industrial workplace.
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Exactly. 100%
 
Robbie G said:
OP learnt that another employee was drunk, OP fulfilled his responsibilities by reporting it to the people that make decisions. He is not paid to nor is it his responsibility to think, but to inform people that are paid to think and let them make the judgement.
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Those that fulfil their responsibilities don't (or shouldn't) become team leaders, those that go above/beyond and can think/adapt where needed do.

My comments have/are been based on the opening post that stated he was a team leader. If it had been say a junior or someone reporting on a colleague they didn't know then my comments would have differed.
 
mrk1@1 said:
it is easy to forget the difference experience makes in judgement

slightly off topic, got to ask, do you get bus & coach buyer?
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No, not personally. We do have various transport related publications floating about the office though. The ones on my reception table at the moment are Coach and Bus week, Route One and some brochures from Scania and Optare.

Why do you ask?
 
albert said:
As stated I really wish I'd told him to go onto the sick, but I was put on the spot and had to make a decision quickly. The lad had drank 4 cans of 6.5% lager and said his last can was 3 hours before the start of shift. The lads been suspended , but over the last 10 years when this type of thing has happened before the lads have all been finished. I'm going to see the boss this afternoon and explain that this will have been a shock to his system , a wake up call and to take that into consideration , for what its worth.
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Its always worth a shot going back and speaking to the manager maybe asking for a second chance for him as hes a good worker as you say. Given that we now know the level of drink and time he would have been well over the limit.

Did he have a reason for drinking that much before shift? (reason is the wrong word I mean something affecting outside of work) or does he have issues with drink?
 
GSXRMovistar said:
We don't know but part of being a good team leader/manager (and to an extent a friend or colleague) is understanding a situation and its context before making final decisions or undertaking actions that could lead to an outcome such as this one.
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part of being a good team leader is ensuring company policy is enforced and no-one is put in danger. this supersedes a softer approach 'understanding the situation' esp in this instance where alcohol is concerned and such actions would result in gross misconduct. as already pointed out the risk to the op for not reporting this would be his own job esp if he told the employee to take a sickie etc.

once you get to management / team leader level, the truth is, you stop being mates with your shop floor work colleagues.

unless you work in a small business which has a more horizontal management and staff structure e.g. a small web development company, technical consultancy, leadership roles change relationships.
 
albert said:
As stated I really wish I'd told him to go onto the sick, but I was put on the spot and had to make a decision quickly. The lad had drank 4 cans of 6.5% lager and said his last can was 3 hours before the start of shift. The lads been suspended , but over the last 10 years when this type of thing has happened before the lads have all been finished. I'm going to see the boss this afternoon and explain that this will have been a shock to his system , a wake up call and to take that into consideration , for what its worth.
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I wouldn't beat yourself up about your action. As has been said and discussed, the correct action in your situation is debatable (and is being debated). Think first and foremost of your own career and working relationships in the future.

It's probably worth going to see the boss and sticking up for the drunk guy and citing his merits.
 
The guy was an idiot. Forget the mortgage and other stuff. He was putting other peoples lives at risk. What if this guy was a delivery driver on public roads? Its the same thing.

He was willing to come to work over the limit and put others lives at risk - no sympathy to be honest.
 
albert said:
As stated I really wish I'd told him to go onto the sick, but I was put on the spot and had to make a decision quickly. The lad had drank 4 cans of 6.5% lager and said his last can was 3 hours before the start of shift. The lads been suspended , but over the last 10 years when this type of thing has happened before the lads have all been finished. I'm going to see the boss this afternoon and explain that this will have been a shock to his system , a wake up call and to take that into consideration , for what its worth.
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An error is not a mistake if you can address it.

He may not have been over whatever limit your firm place on alcohol tests, however that you are willing to stand up for him should show him that you are not being spiteful and are only doing what you consider to be right, both by him and to yourself and those you are responsible for.

He shouldn't blame you, or you blame yourself. It was, in hindsight on my part, a pretty difficult situation for you to be placed in and you did nothing wrong.

Learn from the experience and hopefully your friend will also whatever the outcome.
 
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