I've Got Someone Sacked .....

Scrutinize · 22 Sep 2011 at 12:49

Hedge said:
Can we have any word on the drunks job description and the kind of company he works in?

It shows no leadership taking a guy to work and then going to your boss. A leader would have told him to get out the car, head home, then continue to tell the boss that he had to leave a guy home cos he wasnt suitable.

lol, it is easy for you to sit behind your screen and type this. not such an easy call in the real world, esp when you consider the likely grade and salary of the op based on his job and sector (assuming some kind of logistics, service insdustry, warehousing or production/fabrication).

not to mention the fact that the op did it in a reasonable way. no reason to take him home over taking him to work (assuming he didn't start working before reported)

GSXRMovistar · 22 Sep 2011 at 12:50

mrk1@1 said:
part of being a good team leader is ensuring company policy is enforced and no-one is put in danger. this supersedes a softer approach 'understanding the situation' esp in this instance where alcohol is concerned and such actions would result in gross misconduct. as already pointed out the risk to the op for not reporting this would be his own job esp if he told the employee to take a sickie etc.

Preventing the lad from going onsite would have ensured that no one else was in danger in that instance.

mrk1@1 said:
once you get to management / team leader level, the truth is, you stop being mates with your shop floor work colleagues.

Been there, done that and managed to stay friends/colleagues/team leaders that I have managed.

Hedge · 22 Sep 2011 at 12:54

Spunkey said:
Exactly this.

OP, you did the right thing.

Work, real life... A guy has made a mistake and his real life is now in turmoil. Work which he was clearly good at, also screwed.

Yeah we can't be soft on people, but we still should think of the people we work with, although he foolishly disregarded this .

Scrutinize · 22 Sep 2011 at 12:56

Castiel said:
We would all still be driving about in Bristol VR's if the ones in our office are anything to go by.

don't knock em, shamrock buses were still rolling in these round here and look where that got them

GSXRMovistar said:
Preventing the lad from going onsite would have ensured that no one else was in danger in that instance.

Been there, done that and managed to stay friends/colleagues/team leaders that I have managed.

how many times did you have staff commit something that would amount to gross miscounduct and put other staff at risk?

SniperDude · 22 Sep 2011 at 12:57

should have took him back home told him next time you will take it to the supervisor
he would have got the message and kept his job

Haggisman · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:00

Hedge said:
Work, real life... A guy has made a mistake and his real life is now in turmoil. Work which he was clearly good at, also screwed.

He didn't make a "mistake", he knowingly, deliberately and willingly drank alcohol shortly before working with dangerous machinery. He then forced the responsibility of this onto the OP by telling him about it.

Hedge said:
Yeah we can't be soft on people, but we still should think of the people we work with, although he foolishly disregarded this .

If the employee was thinking of the people he worked with he wouldn't have been putting their lives at risk.

SniperDude said:
should have took him back home told him next time you will take it to the supervisor
he would have got the message and kept his job

He might have got the message. Or he might have thought "next time I'll keep it quiet" and ended up killing someone.

shoes · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:01

SniperDude said:
should have took him back home told him next time you will take it to the supervisor
he would have got the message and kept his job

4 cans of lager 2 hours before being on shift to drive heavy machinery?

screw his job and screw him. I work on building sites all the time, if the digger/bulldozer/crane etc. drivers were ****** how do you think that would end?

I only feel sorry for the OP who got roped into all this involuntarily and was forced to make a tough call. Oh and the company who now has to sort out the sacking procedures, and initiate the hiring process in the hope of finding someone who is suited to the role.

cm1179 · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:02

Hedge said:
Work, real life... A guy has made a mistake and his real life is now in turmoil. Work which he was clearly good at, also screwed.

Yeah we can't be soft on people, but we still should think of the people we work with, although he foolishly disregarded this .

he didn't think of others though, he put every other person who would be within his vacinity in danger. it is his fault, no one elses. give the job to someone who respects the job and others more.

i understand this is a little harsh in respect of his family and home but he should have thought about this.

Tombo · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:03

shoes said:
screw his job and screw him. .

screw you

Malc · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:04

Haggisman said:
Except, if the first the OP hears about it happening again is when the employee has just killed someone through operating machinery then it becomes slightly more serious.

See, this is where our disagreement lies. I think the chance of any repercussions arising from the OP not reporting the drunk employee are slim and it's worth risking it against maintaining face/respect at work. I expect you feel the opposite.

Jono8 · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:06

If it was just an office job or something then this would be harsh but the fact that the guys job involves operating heavy machinery makes it mighty stupid for the fella to be drinking, and then admit it to his superior.

cm1179 · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:07

Malc said:
and it's worth risking it against maintaining face/respect at work.

no it isn't, how can you possibly think this? this is not playground rules, this is real world, real machinery, real high risk. oh but it's ok! i'll still be up for double rations in the canteen though there is a risk of someone getting hurt!

Castiel · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:07

mrk1@1 said:
don't knock em, shamrock buses were still rolling in these round here and look where that got them

Damory replaced them with Optare Solos I hear when they absorbed Shamrock. The old VR's were far more reliable than some of the new stuff mind. Mercs Citaros are a nightmare for reliability.

Wicksta · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:08

I just can't believe 'team leader' didn't say anything in the car after being told this and drove the worker (and presumably 'friend' if he divulged this information) on his merry old way to work before telling the boss to sack him. Honestly it beggars belief.

Obviously different people have different views on what 'leadership' is.

GSXRMovistar · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:09

mrk1@1 said:
how many times did you have staff commit something that would amount to gross miscounduct and put other staff at risk?

I've been involved in many situations at various levels over the years with both staff I've worked with, for, or have worked for me. Thankfully nothing has ever lead to the termination of any permanent staff although there have been instances where contractors have seen their contracts ended early.

Scrutinize · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:09

Malc said:
See, this is where our disagreement lies. I think the chance of any repercussions arising from the OP not reporting the drunk employee are slim and it's worth risking it against maintaining face/respect at work. I expect you feel the opposite.

not a chance it is worth the risk for the op,

why should the op even entertain the risk of loosing his job and facing prosecution should the worst happen in the future.

Haggisman · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:11

Malc said:
See, this is where our disagreement lies. I think the chance of any repercussions arising from the OP not reporting the drunk employee are slim and it's worth risking it against maintaining face/respect at work. I expect you feel the opposite.

I'm sure saving face and having the respect of people at work will be a great consolation when you're up in front of a manslaughter hearing.

That's assuming you still have that when they partly blame you for the death of one of their co-workers because you didn't take the appropriate action to prevent it.

Or if you're really unlucky, maybe it will console your grieving family when you're the one that gets hurt.

Wicksta · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:12

Yes don't forget the children of the person who was killed, we musn't forget them.

Haggisman · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:13

Wicksta said:
Yes don't forget the children of the person who was killed, we musn't forget them.

Well, people are using the argument that the (possibly) sacked employee has a family to support/mortgage to pay. Why should they be any more important than the OP's or anyone elses? :confused:

Participant · 22 Sep 2011 at 13:14

Castiel - what are your thoughts on this point:

Robbie G said:
The other point that Castiel is missing is the benefit of having an employee on site when an issue like this is raised. It's far easier to judge a situation when the accused employee is standing before you rather than on the other end of a telephone. A boss can read facial expressions, better gauge reactions and levels of remorse, hear any explanation 'from the horse's mouth', even smell his breath and assess if he really is drunk or not.

?

Wicksta said:
I just can't believe 'team leader' didn't say anything in the car after being told this and drove the worker (and presumably 'friend' if he divulged this information) on his merry old way to work before telling the boss to sack him. Honestly it beggars belief.

Obviously different people have different views on what 'leadership' is.

He's just a team leader not the head of strategy. Even if it was poor leadership, I doubt he's had extensive HR training for that position like some people are lucky enough to have received. Judge people by their station not by yours.