I've Got Someone Sacked .....

PMKeates · 23 Sep 2011 at 10:53

Gilly said:
I'm a manager of people that sit at a desk all day, if I knew they had been drinking in the morning before they were attending the office they'd be sent home and suspended with a view to dismissal.

That's a tad harsh in my opinion. I think it would depend entirely on the circumstances.

Castiel · 23 Sep 2011 at 10:55

mrk1@1 said:
castiel is a director of a bus operator group, and the legislation for drivers (and of course the operators/directors) falls under the duties under the Road Traffic Act 1988 and the Transport and Works Act 1992 as well as the health and safety at work act. in summary this means that drivers of road vehicles must not be under the influence of alcohol while driving, attempting to drive or when they are in charge of a vehicle. this becomes an immediately prosecutable legal issue. although unlikely, this could mean jail time for castiel, more likely is the suspension of the operators licence for the bus company by the traffic commisioner which means no buses = big problem.

it is the 'attempting to drive' a vehicle part that is the problem here, and for a bus driver, coming into work drunk would be considered an attempt to drive the vehicle.

thus for the public transport sector, it is often more stringent when it comes to the consumption of alcohol or drugs. i imagine castiel’s company policy will not even allow employees on site who may be under the influence of drugs or alcohol for the above reasons.

for most workplaces, it is the appliance of company policy that will to fulfil / discharge their duties of the health and safety at work act. this may simply state employees may not operate machines etc under the influence but not solely prohibit coming on site.

Indeed. While they would not be banned from the entire site per se(certainly the depot, garages, station platforms) employees suspected of being under the influence of alcohol or drugs are not to be unattended until such time that a registered member of staff can administer a breathalyser and in the case of suspected drug use, take a relevant test sample. If such a test cannot be performed at the time then the employee is suspended and escorted off site until further notice pending a disciplinary, the same happens if the breathalyser registers any reading other than zero on one of two tests which are taken 30 minutes apart.

Any member of the supervisory and/or management staff that knowingly allows a member of staff on site and unattended while they may be suspected of being under the influence is subject to the disciplinary procedures.

B&W · 23 Sep 2011 at 11:16

You shoulda took him home, if he was stubborn all u had to say was if u turn up ill tell management.

You shoulda thought a bit more about it instead of rushing everything so yeah u should feel bad.

Haggisman · 23 Sep 2011 at 11:19

jaybee said:
5 pages to tell the OP he's a **** ? Really? Wow. OP your a ****er and you should have just drove him home or told him not to come in.

I'm assuming from your post you didn't bother to read any of the previous pages then :rolleyes:

krooton · 23 Sep 2011 at 11:30

Could the OP have handled the situation better? Yes.

Did the OP do the right thing? Yes.

Is the OP a **** for doing the right thing? No.

Is the employee a **** for trying to go to work in the first place? Yes.

Gilly · 23 Sep 2011 at 11:32

B&W said:
You shoulda took him home, if he was stubborn all u had to say was if u turn up ill tell management.

You shoulda thought a bit more about it instead of rushing everything so yeah u should feel bad.

Why? He didn't cause the situation.

4T5 · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:37

I couldn't grass anybody up to management as I'd feel to guilty about the repercussions the bloke & his family would feel through loss of job/not being able to pay the mortgage etc
If the guy was obviously drunk I'd have just stopped the car & told him to get the **** out & go home. If he then chose to go in & get caught it would be down to him not me.
I know the not grassing thing is pathetic but it's just built into me.

Hedge · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:44

4T5 said:
I couldn't grass anybody up to management as I'd feel to guilty about the repercussions the bloke & his family would feel through loss of job/not being able to pay the mortgage etc
If the guy was obviously drunk I'd have just stopped the car & told him to get the **** out & go home. If he then chose to go in & get caught it would be down to him not me.
I know the not grassing thing is pathetic but it's just built into me.

Its built into most people, admittedly its not always the best way but it can have negative effects on peoples perception of you.

Tefal · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:45

4T5 said:
I couldn't grass anybody up to management as I'd feel to guilty about the repercussions the bloke & his family would feel through loss of job/not being able to pay the mortgage etc
If the guy was obviously drunk I'd have just stopped the car & told him to get the **** out & go home. If he then chose to go in & get caught it would be down to him not me.
I know the not grassing thing is pathetic but it's just built into me.

actually if he'd caused an accident it would be down to you too, and you'd both be walked off site and told not to come back.

Vonhelmet · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:46

Hedge said:
Its built into most people, admittedly its not always the best way but it can have negative effects on peoples perception of you.

Usually only among those who think the same way...

Hedge · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:48

Tefal said:
actually if he'd caused an accident it would be down to you too, and you'd both be walked off site and told not to come back.

No I doubt he would.

Telling the guy to get out of his car and not go to work is good enough. Surely the guy is an adult and responsible for his own actions.

4T5 · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:48

Tefal said:
actually if he'd caused an accident it would be down to you too, and you'd both be walked off site and told not to come back.

Good point but still I couldn't grass a bloke up I'd worked with for 18 months & would hope my own work record would save me from a sacking. I'm old & stuck in my ways so I have to live/Die/Stand or fall by my own words/actions.

Hedge · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:50

Vonhelmet said:
Usually only among those who think the same way...

In most workplaces Ive been its definitely frowned upon. Im talking from working in mainly male dominated environments. Borough Council, Royal Mail, Royal Air Force.. Not much time "grasses" in them places.

Tefal · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:51

Hedge said:
No I doubt he would.

Telling the guy to get out of his car and not go to work is good enough. Surely the guy is an adult and responsible for his own actions.

he would, not only because he's the guys team leader, but because you think his employer is going to want someone who brought in a machine operator someone they knew to be drunk without telling anyone on the payroll?

Pretty sure the health and safety at work act also says you have a duty of care to others too, so he'd probbaly be ****ed under that as well.

Hedge · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:54

Tefal said:
he would, not only because he's the guys team leader, but because you think his employer is going to want someone who brought in a machine operator someone they knew to be drunk without telling anyone on the payroll?

Pretty sure the health and safety at work act also says you have a duty of care to others too, so he'd probbaly be ****ed under that as well.

The scenario was that he threw the guy out of his car and told him to not come in to work... not "brought in the machine operator".

Wicksta · 23 Sep 2011 at 12:54

I'd love to see some of the jumped up little middle managers here go and work somewhere like Munich where people have Wiessbier breakfast (sometimes in the office) and beer sold in the canteens.

Of course Germans are known for their low productivity though.

Vonhelmet · 23 Sep 2011 at 13:00

Wicksta said:
I'd love to see some of the jumped up little middle managers here go and work somewhere like Munich where people have Wiessbier breakfast (sometimes in the office) and beer sold in the canteens.

Of course Germans are known for their low productivity though.

You mean where it's permitted to do those things? But still presumably not when you're going to be operating heavy machinery?

Yeah, I can see how those scenarios are absolutely comparable to the UK, where it's by and large not seen as permissible.

krooton · 23 Sep 2011 at 13:07

Wicksta said:
I'd love to see some of the jumped up little middle managers here go and work somewhere like Munich where people have Wiessbier breakfast (sometimes in the office) and beer sold in the canteens.

Of course Germans are known for their low productivity though.

Pretty sure machine operators don't drink on the job.

Tefal · 23 Sep 2011 at 13:19

Hedge said:
The scenario was that he threw the guy out of his car and told him to not come in to work... not "brought in the machine operator".

then if the guy came in he'd still know he was drunk and if he didn't report it he'd still be responsible.

cm1179 · 23 Sep 2011 at 13:20

some people really are in a bubble of their own here.

the op should have took him home? so, as if picking him up in the first place wasn't enough, he now has to go out of his way AGAIN, to take him home because the bloke is over the limit? right, ok, anything else he should do for him, make his sandwiches maybe?

this is real world, not getting walked to the school gates by mummy.