Japanese Grand Prix 2013, Suzuka - Race 15/19
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Ish. It's true that Williams struggled to come up with a stable 'passive' car after a couple of years of being the masters of active suspension. Adrian Newey went on record and said that he and Patrick Head (and the Williams desgners) cocked up with the design of the FW16 initially - one key aspect was having the front wing too low. Once sorted come mid-season the car was quick.
What was very suspicious about 1994 was how Schumacher could be so dominant in those first few races in a car which had been competent but not consistently front-running the previous season and also powered by a less powerful (when compared to the Renault V10 and Ferrari V12) Ford V8. Plus Benetton were proved to be cheating with regard to refuelling, by removing the filter and thereby increasing the flow rate.
I do believe that Benetton were using some electronic aids in 1994, but hey that's 19 years ago
Soldato
Mark is your mobile number still the same? Ending in 15?
any chance of a link to that one? i could do with a giggle
I'll see if I can dig it out
Cool ok, just dropped you a text. Let Newey know his bit in F1 Racing this month was good. Has your copy arrived yet Skeeter?
Im not expecting you to say anything to this but.......even if you get away with it, its still cheating
Of course ALL f1 teams push the rule book, but its also about teh spirit of the law as well as the letter.
(If it were my millions invested in a team I would HOPE I would still say the same thing, but until you are there its impossible to say)
Soldato
Meh. If it's legal to the letter of the rulebook, it races. Simple as. And if that means upsetting a few of the viewers at home who can't make the distinction between cleverness and cheating, so be it! All this 'spirit of the rules' stuff is a lovely sentiment but impossible to police and uphold.
Do all of you who think that RBR are fielding illegal cars really think that TPTB would happily stand by and let them do it? Or are you all just scratting round for an excuse as to why your favourite team or driver isn't standing on the top step of the podium more often?
Lord knows I've got no great love for RBR (I have to mute the TV/radio as soon as Chris Horner comes on because he makes my teeth itch), but they've been doing a better job than everyone else for a while now. And they really ought to be applauded for that.
Absolutely I agree, clearly Sparky and his colleagues are doing a fantastic job.
It's just frustrating that for four years now non of the other teams have been able to match them or, when they have, other factors like reliability and human error have stopped those other teams from capitalising.
Soldato
that is true but omits the fact that they spend more. I don't hate Red Bull, they have talented team, a very good driver, but unfortunately the competition is not a level playing field which sucks. it's not RBR's fault, it's the governing bodies. they need to distribute earnings equally among teams like they do in other sports as well as regulate costs. it's just boring to see a one horse race. same was true in Ferrari Schumacher era
Man of Honour
All the teams have the same spending cap.
And yes, Mark Webber is pretty good, I agree!
Meh. If it's legal to the letter of the rulebook, it races. Simple as. And if that means upsetting a few of the viewers at home who can't make the distinction between cleverness and cheating, so be it! All this 'spirit of the rules' stuff is a lovely sentiment but impossible to police and uphold.
Do all of you who think that RBR are fielding illegal cars really think that TPTB would happily stand by and let them do it? Or are you all just scratting round for an excuse as to why your favourite team or driver isn't standing on the top step of the podium more often?
Lord knows I've got no great love for RBR (I have to mute the TV/radio as soon as Chris Horner comes on because he makes my teeth itch), but they've been doing a better job than everyone else for a while now. And they really ought to be applauded for that.
I never said ANYTHING about Redbull - we were talking about Benetton in '94
"Cleverness" and cheating are totally seperate.
Cleverness - one fo the things that "releatively" recently comes to mind is the DDRS of the Brawn (which he states in a Working group meeting 6- 12 months prior to the season, and no one listened). Thats Cleverness.
Having code written into engine maps or gear boxes etc that allow traction control when its already banned is cheating. Plain and simple
Just because the FIA are too stupid to prove that Benetton cheated doesnt change the fact they did.
I can't find the details of that Ferrari electric paint theory, but the basic gist was:
They had paint that when a current was passed through it the surface distorted making it rough. This paint was applied to one side of a wing that meant that when it was activated it did something (can't remember what) to the airflow which increased down force (something like making air flow slower over one of the surfaces). It was controlled by a mercury switch activated during cornering, so that when you were going straight it was off, so nice slippery wings for straight line speed. Then when you turn in the mercury moves to one side and creates a circuit that electrifies the paint activating increased down force for cornering. It was supposedly going to be tricky to master as the driver would have to make the initial turn in assuming he would get more down force than he currently had.
From what I remember this all spawned from a single picture of a Ferrari where the paint looked a bit 'dirty' or slightly opaque on the front wing.
They had paint that when a current was passed through it the surface distorted making it rough. This paint was applied to one side of a wing that meant that when it was activated it did something (can't remember what) to the airflow which increased down force (something like making air flow slower over one of the surfaces). It was controlled by a mercury switch activated during cornering, so that when you were going straight it was off, so nice slippery wings for straight line speed. Then when you turn in the mercury moves to one side and creates a circuit that electrifies the paint activating increased down force for cornering. It was supposedly going to be tricky to master as the driver would have to make the initial turn in assuming he would get more down force than he currently had.
From what I remember this all spawned from a single picture of a Ferrari where the paint looked a bit 'dirty' or slightly opaque on the front wing.
Soldato
Yep. None of which is RBR's fault, mind.
I'd love to see Ferrari, McLaren et al get their **** together and challenge for the title. But I have a....not quite appreciation, but not far off, for RBR and Seb basically obliterating everyone seemingly without even breaking a sweat.
Plus, it's always fun to see Alonso lose. Even as a dyed-in-the-wool Ferrari fan!
Well, as soon as the Resource Restriction Agreement turns from an agreement into a rule then you can legitimately use it as a complaint. Until then....
Firstly - no, they shouldn't distribute earnings equally. They should reward success, not just turning up. Secondly, it's boring to see a boring one horse race. A year that saw action up and down the grid but still with one driver winning it by a country mile would not be boring.
I've barely watched any of this season live. But not because Seb is dominating. I don't watch it live because the whole thing has just become tedious. There are better things to do on a Sunday than watch a sport try to kill itself with the rulebook.
You're right, you were talking about Benetton in '94. But Benetton only got brought up because of the talk about RBR
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Soldato
You dreamt it! Patent incoming.....
I wish. I couldn't ever dream something that interesting. I dream dull mundane stuff like sending emails at work, and then wonder why I never got a reply the following day