Japanese Grand Prix 2014, Suzuka - Race 15/19

Lopéz said:
If you are referring to Rower Williamsons death at Zandvoort, the reasons for the drivers (not just Stewart) not stopping are well documented.
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Yes, and I completely disagree with them. When the driver is standing in the middle of the track frantically waving it could possibly be construed as waving the others around, but when he's dejectedly wandering around in the middle of the track you should realise a driver is in trouble, but still they carry on regardless. Unless of course you think "oh well, he'll be dead now", in which case it's fine. :rolleyes:
 
To be honest I think skirts is the wrong solution, or perhaps more accurately not the preferable solution in isolation.

The 'safety hierarchy' that gets drilled into you is eliminate > substitute > control > PPE.

In my eyes, the better situation is that you eliminate the problem of Formula 1 cars hitting JCBs rather than try and control what happens when they do, by simply not allowing JCBs on track without a safety car in operation to slow the cars down.

You can put skirts on as well but as I see it, the primary objective is to avoid the possibility of it happening in the first place rather than simply mitigating the severity of it if it does.
 
cu3ed said:
McClaren fires and blames the drivers every time a season doesnt go well, thats just their problem.
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I agree with this.
But they have also focused on playing happy families rather than winning.
It seems that Honda will want an end to this policy.

McLaren & Honda will want to have a No.2 driver who isn't going to step on Alonso's toes.
They want the Constructors and Drivers titles and IMO, K.Mag will be a better partner for Alonso. I can see Button taking some points away from Alonso in wet races...which isn't a good thing when you are aiming to win the title.

The only way I'd keep Button, instead of K.Mag, is if Button has it written into his contract that he is the No.2 driver and if has to move over, he will do so without question. And I doubt this will happen.

I think Eddie Jordan got it right when he said: in 2015, Alonso and K.Mag at McLaren and Button working for the BBC. ;)
 
PRetty much but I think rather than kill entire laps and for several laps a time we have the technology to just implement a single sector being speed limited like DRS gets, maybe even just two straights. Always have it as coming out of a corner so braking is normal and you won't suddenly drop from 200mph to 50 down a straight while trying to overtake but you'd only hit a certain speed after accelerating out of a corner. That should also be mostly limited to the dry.

But some sensibility in positioning of JCB's, where the entrances onto track are, where they'd be positioned. Honestly you get some rope and you'd find a few marshalls could pull the cars to much safer positions to be picked up if not just dragged out of the way entirely. Yes marshalls on track isn't safe but they are far more able to respond to another car than a several tonne truck.

I think every track needs a detailed think about where in the rain aquaplaning will lead to a significantly higher chance of repeat offs in the same position then have a list of corners where an off means recovery under safety car only OR choosing to leave the car out. So that corner would absolutely have been on the list and they would have automatic orders to not recover the car or choose an instant safety car, either would have prevented what happened. Again Sutil's car it wasn't as safe as possible but it wasn't horrendously dangerous to leave his car there either.

Maybe we can't eliminate all danger, that is fine, but the chance of another car going off in those circumstances was high enough that it was pure madness to put a dangerous vehicle in the path of an F1 car.
 
Was it Brazil 2003 they had a car park with cars going off aquaplaning with a tractor on track when MS went off in the same place? It was a safety concern back then and something that should not be happening 11 years later.
 
Kenai said:
To be honest I think skirts is the wrong solution, or perhaps more accurately not the preferable solution in isolation.

The 'safety hierarchy' that gets drilled into you is eliminate > substitute > control > PPE.

In my eyes, the better situation is that you eliminate the problem of Formula 1 cars hitting JCBs rather than try and control what happens when they do, by simply not allowing JCBs on track without a safety car in operation to slow the cars down.

You can put skirts on as well but as I see it, the primary objective is to avoid the possibility of it happening in the first place rather than simply mitigating the severity of it if it does.
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Safety car won't eliminate it, the only way to eliminate it is no cars and JCBs on the track at the same time.

Ericsson went off the track behind the safety car today, liuzzi went off at about 170 in 2007 hockenheim when the safety car was deployed too. There are lots of times cars have went off behind a safety car. So the only elimination is no cars driving past the area during a recovery, which will never happen.
 
Or slow them down in that area to much slower speeds. Currently they only have to lift off, but perhaps slowing down to pit-lane speeds might be in order? Start the double-yellow zone at a convenient corner and there shouldn't be too much trouble with braking.
 
Safety car would eliminate it because while Ericsson went off, the actual connecting to a car and dragging it off usually is very quick. The difference here is other than reducing the speed significantly the tractor can be ready to go as the last car went around and would have almost 2.5minutes before the first car came back around to pick it up and move it 30 yards.

In many if not most situations the jcb could be on and off while there are no cars around, but when they did come back round they could be going at 75kph instead of 160mph. Ericsson spun, but he didn't smash into the barriers because he was going so slowly, same spin going 2-3 times as fast and he may have hit the barrier.
 
But if the safety car slows everyone down too much, that causes a whole raft of other safety issues. F1 cars have crap grip at low speed, even today Hamilton (and it was mentioned rosberg) were moaning that the safety car was going too slow.
 
Kenai said:
To be honest I think skirts is the wrong solution, or perhaps more accurately not the preferable solution in isolation.

The 'safety hierarchy' that gets drilled into you is eliminate > substitute > control > PPE.

In my eyes, the better situation is that you eliminate the problem of Formula 1 cars hitting JCBs rather than try and control what happens when they do, by simply not allowing JCBs on track without a safety car in operation to slow the cars down.

You can put skirts on as well but as I see it, the primary objective is to avoid the possibility of it happening in the first place rather than simply mitigating the severity of it if it does.
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I agree, this is a risk assessment and mitigation strategy which in any hazardous situation, trade or occupation should to be carried out.

I have acted as an appointed person for crane lifts and IMO picking a car from the side of a race track is exactly that and with or without fast moving vehicles adjacent to the 'crane' should have a written risk assessment signed by a competent person to cover all eventualities with mitigation and residual risks identified. I would expect such a document to be owned jointly by the race organisers and the FIA for all its venues.

Perhaps I am being too first world but I expect the tracks and stands are signed off as being up to standard. I would hope that ancillary activities which impact the safety of employees are also assessed. I would have expected modified vehicles to be used for this activity unless there was NO chance of a collision occurring.
 
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Either not rushing the recovery vehicles out until it is safe to do so or at least putting some side protection on them like lorries have, would seem a simple solution.

Trying to force the cars to slow down could be more dangerous.
 
Is it called Code Purple in the Dubai 24 hours, where they impliment a speed limit on part or all of the track? Le Mans also used slow zones this year for the first time.

The technology is easily there to allow F1 to implement a slow zone where all drivers must do a maximum speed through a section of track while there is a hazard, without neutralising the whole circuit or bringing the SC out and meaning we waste time with the lapped cars passing rule.

If there is a whole circuit issue (i.e. weather) then the SC could still be used.
 
The biggest problem just now is the FIA not giving any information so folk just make crap up.

I'm not expecting live tweeting from his bedside, but it's been what, 15 hours or something and not a single word? Can't they at least say he's had surgery, in intensive care where he is in a coma or something? Failing that you get nonsense on Twitter.
 
Not really. Look at how much time is wasted with the current Safety Car rules.

In WEC the race director has a direct radio channel to the cars. When a Slow Zone is called he informs all the drivers where it is so they immediately know, and react.

It might take a bit longer than a yellow flag only zone, but its much less disruptive than a SC. You would assume it would just be an 'upgrade' to an area of track already under yellows too. i.e. something happens, yellow flags are out imediately. The race director then sets up a slow zone, tells all the drivers, and they slow down through the yellow flag area. The incident is cleared up, and as soon as its done the flags come in and the slow zone is removed.
 
JUMPURS said:
The biggest problem just now is the FIA not giving any information so folk just make crap up.

I'm not expecting live tweeting from his bedside, but it's been what, 15 hours or something and not a single word? Can't they at least say he's had surgery, in intensive care where he is in a coma or something? Failing that you get nonsense on Twitter.
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That's not the FIAs job. They're a sanctioning body, not a media organisation. With a head injury it can be anywhere between a few days and weeks before there's any meaningful news.
 
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