Jenson Button to partner Fernando Alonso in 2013?

smr said:
And crashes more and doesn't finish as many races. Shall we continueeeee? :)
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No. We have already established that he hasnt had the best of times during the last few months :).

Many other times, excluding the last few months, has proven that Lewis is faster than Button, if not the fastest man in F1.
 
smr said:
It's funny isn't it, people always assume faster = number 1 driver. Strategy involves having an intellectual capacity ...

So on that basis, if we're doing who's number 1 and who's number 2 you could argue that Lewis is the number 2 driver at Mclaren because he has a "number 2 brain" ...
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Certainly, Hamilton does not possess the strategic/intelligent brain which Button has. However, what Hamilton has on his side is speed.

Going back through history, there have been many drivers who were team leaders and every time, it is the fastest driver who leads the team. It is very unlikely that you would have driver A, driving faster than driver B and driver B as the lead driver. And if driver B is the lead driver, this probably won't be the case beyond the current season.

This is why in motor racing, while intelligence is important. speed is absolutely, the most important attribute for an F1 driver to possess.
 
sunama said:
This is why in motor racing, while intelligence is important. speed is absolutely, the most important attribute for an F1 driver to possess.
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Quite interesting then that the two men with the most world titles are often seen as the smartest rather than out right fastest.

Getting yourself in the right team and the right time is the most important thing and that comes down to a lot of luck and being smart.
 
sunama said:
I think Vettel may disagree with that. ;)
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To be honest it is very difficult to tell how fast Vettel actually is these days due to that car. I would absolutely love to see Alonso and Hamilton in that car to see what they could do. Not going to happen unfortunately :(
 
dannyjo22 said:
Quite interesting then that the two men with the most world titles are often seen as the smartest rather than out right fastest.

Getting yourself in the right team and the right time is the most important thing and that comes down to a lot of luck and being smart.
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I agree that the political aspect (getting yourself into the best car at all times), is important. But I disagree that it is the most important.

For example, Prost wasn't as fast as say, Senna and he got 4 titles. (Prost was no slouch though...didn't he get 13 poles out of 16 or 17 races in 1993, against D.Hill, who later on became a World Champ?)

With MSc...he was pretty quick. Even when he was driving a car which wasn't the best, he was still getting fantastic results with it. I actually think that perhaps MSc was one of, if not the fastest driver in F1, for many years.

Also with regards to getting yourself in the best car - this is a skill that seems to have died. Prost was the best at this. I 100% agree that politics is an important skill to have for any driver. Right now, Hamilton can't seem to get into an RBR, even though it is clear he wants to win titles and therefore will want to be with the team which offers him the fastest car. For me, Hamilton should prod his own agents and discuss what the best strategy is, to get into RBR. The agents have to take some of the flak. Hamilton is currently wasting his years at McLaren (unless they can start providing a fast car).

I think that in 2011, too many drivers consider loyalty as an important attribute.

At present, considering outright speed, safety (ie. not crashing out in every GP), political clout, intelligence...Alonso is the absolute best.

Vettel may not have the political ability, but he sure has unbelievable speed...which for me, is the most important attribute. This is why I now think Vettel is nipping on Alonso's heels.

Jono8 said:
To be honest it is very difficult to tell how fast Vettel actually is these days due to that car.
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Not necessarily. In F1, the most important thing is to beat your team-mate (who has the same machinery). This is quite well-known and I'm dumbfounded that nobody seems to pick up on this. Vettel is absolutely humiliating Webber right now. He is doing to Webber, what Hamilton did to Heikki and MSc did to numerous team-mates. The gap between Vettel and Webber is probably the biggest in F1 right now (somebody would need to check this: in terms of qualifying times, qualifying positions, total points scored, etc). Based on this, Vettel has to be considered as the best performer of 2011.

In summary, if Hamilton wants the title again, he will need a car which is at least as good as Vettel's. I can't see how he is going to win the title in a slower car. Alonso on the hand, could probably win the title in a slightly slower car than Vettel's.
 
sunama said:
I agree that the political aspect (getting yourself into the best car at all times), is important. But I disagree that it is the most important..
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How can you even argue that being in the best car is the single most important thing in F1 when it's won every single title since 92 except perhaps 94 where it's pretty damn obvious to the world that some serious shennanigans was happening at Benetton.

Note I said best car not the outright fastest. The best car has speed and reliability.

Without doubt being in the best car IS the most important thing in f1 or more drivers would win the title in a second rate car.

sunama said:
Vettel may not have the political ability, but he sure has unbelievable speed...which for me, is the most important attribute. This is why I now think Vettel is nipping on Alonso's heels.
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Well what's happened to Webber is a pretty clear sign Vettel has more than his fair share of political ability. Brundle has mentioned many times in commentary that behind closed doors he's rumoured to be utterly ruthless in getting his own way.

sunama said:
Not necessarily. In F1, the most important thing is to beat your team-mate (who has the same machinery). This is quite well-known and I'm dumbfounded that nobody seems to pick up on this. Vettel is absolutely humiliating Webber right now.
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You didn't bother answering the last time I quoted you on this but this is a team mate you described as being poor, average and a journeyman. Now because it suits your argument you are billing him as a better driver humiliated by his team mate.

So if Ruben has you as his team mate next year and beats you by the biggest margins ever seen that's an achievement?

You can't have it both ways, either Webber is the chimp you kept describing last year and Vettel beating him should happen all the time or Webber is a great driver being beaten by someone on top of his game.

Which is it?

Fact is last year when Webber has some parity and was at the top of his game you ridiculed him for being poor. Now you need him to be better to add weight to your vettel story all that has been forgotten.

Webber had a shout last year and had they cared about him winning they wouldn't have taken bits away from him and when he led the title with a few races to go could have guarenteed Red Bulls first title by having Vettel back him up.

We know what happened instead.

Webber is now just taking the money and seeing what chances come his way.
 
JRS said:
Nice body-swerve, sunama ;)
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I can honestly say I'm shocked, not :D

Atleast I now know what Tony Blair does with his spare time these days. ;)

Clearly I was wrong it's not about winning titles anymore it's about being a No1. Clearly Jv being a no1 at BAR was far far more important that being an 'equal' in the best car on the grid.

Infact JV didn't actually waste the best years of his career because he was an out and out no1. Phew he will be happy to hear that.

Screw it I've lost interest, I swear to god you're a united fan probably from as far back as 1993.
 
I think Hamilton will move to Redbull to partner Vettel. Mclaren could then take up Webber, who I think has the right attitude for the team and to partner Button. Ferrari will most probably drop Massa, who really isn't the guy he used to be, and bring in someone from the middle order as Alonso's 2nd fiddle.

But who can say for sure...
 
sunama said:
Certainly, Hamilton does not possess the strategic/intelligent brain which Button has. However, what Hamilton has on his side is speed.

.
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Hamilton may have speed - on one type of tyre

He still needs to prove he can manage two different types of tyre at the right level on the same day to win a GP over and over again

Actually management of the whole car over a race distance to beat everyone else

Given how good he is meant to be, he should be showing a lot more than he really has this season as a whole
 
Yep. Hamilton is having a poor season (by his standards).
Collision after collision after collision.
If a lesser driver in a lower team had all these crashes, his career in F1 would be in question.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing in Singapore when he had yet another collision, especially when he knew that he was faster than Massa and if need be he could overtake him on the straight, with DRS. Yet, he took the risk and attempted to overtake in an impatient manner.
 
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