What specifically do you want? Not that I'm in any way agreeing with the fanatical members, I'm just reading the report so thought I may as well respond to you.
Jimmy Savile - Sexual Predator
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What specifically do you want? Not that I'm in any way agreeing with the fanatical members, I'm just reading the report so thought I may as well respond to you.
The method on what is classed as rape and specifically the line which says it includes alcholo,
Is that when some one has on purpose got the girl so drunk they are unable to give consent, or is it like other reports and includes any alcholo and a regret the morning after. Which I hope most people would accept is not rape.
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Rape:
Can't see a more specific definition of alcohol/drug induced but am still skim reading.
The questions asked are at the back, personally I think the drink/drug question appears ambiguous written down and could be construed as had sex whilst drunk OR had sex whilst passed out and unable to consent. It doesn't ask whether a person changed their minds the next day though.
But it was a verbal survey so I would expect the interviewers to be clearer on it.
Unfortunately they are usually never clearer.
What page is that on?
Edit - never mind found it.
Seeing as it includes drunk and passed out, then it's going to include times when they are just drunk.
Also surprised on some questions it doesn't have the remember we're only talking about times. You didn't want it to happen. But doesn't say this on a number of questions, like made you. Look or participate in sexual videos/pictures.
Why can't these. Surveys include as well as the questions they want a back up question, like do you feel you've ever been raped. Or are they scared the arwnsering won't fit there more ambiguously questions. I don't. Get why 99.9% of surveys are always like this, are the people. Asking the questions always incompent or do they all have agendas.
And the last question is brilliant, ever lied to.
Don't we all do that, of course you look amazing tonight.
What page is that on?
Edit - never mind found it.
Seeing as it includes drunk and passed out, then it's going to include times when they are just drunk.
Also surprised on some questions it doesn't have the remember we're only talking about times. You didn't want it to happen. But doesn't say this on a number of questions, like made you. Look or participate in sexual videos/pictures.
Why can't these. Surveys include as well as the questions they want a back up question, like do you feel you've ever been raped. Or are they scared the arwnsering won't fit there more ambiguously questions. I don't. Get why 99.9% of surveys are always like this, are the people. Asking the questions always incompent or do they all have agendas.
And the last question is brilliant, ever lied to.
Don't we all do that, of course you look amazing tonight.
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Am I the only one that thinks this is all a little bit pointless? The man might be totally guilty of every charge currently being thrown at him. But what does that change? At the end of the day he can't be brought to justice for his crimes. He's dead. The time for punishment has come and gone.
No, there are plenty of idiots who think this way. A lot of girls were sexually abused, he got away with it, people covered it up, we need to know why, punish those who covered it up, and prevent it from happening again.
Man of Honour
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So all he does is put another number plate on it and still hire it out.
Knowing how stupid people are with their money during weddings he'll still get his money back over time.
Soldato
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Rape is a heinous crime.
As for the defense 'tearing her apart', that is what lawyers are there to do and because rape is such a heinous crime they need to make 110% sure the allegations against the defendant are genuine and that the person making them is telling the truth and not just having post sex regret or wanting to get their own back because of some twisted need for revenge. This is especially the case as men are not afforded the same anonymity as women (IE men are less than equal in the eyes of the law). Many young girls, as well as adults make up stories which are often proven to be lies.
Someone I know was accused of sexually abusing a child. Why? Because she was his step daughter and he had told her off and she didn't like it - so to get her own back she accused him of sexually abusing her. He was arrested, questioned and detained. His life and that of his family was torn apart. She later came clean - but it is an ordeal their family will probably never recover from. There will always be that "well they wouldn't have investigated him if there was no evidence" mentality.
The same happens in false rape accusations.
However, I agree that making her hold up underwear that was worn under clothing was cruel and unnecessary.
In her case the allegations were found to be true and I find the jail sentence far too lenient.
However, in many cases the allegations are not true - and being falsely accused of rape (or any sexual offence) can ruin someones life because it is a shadow that never goes away. It has been mentioned that people reporting rape are never taken seriously - and often blamed. Try telling that to the many men who are arrested based on pure accusation, detained in cells and given humiliating medical examinations, questioned at length and who have their name and reputation forever sullied and who are viewed as guilty from the moment the accusations are made. That is only the legal cases. There are many more where a woman conducts a smear campaign amongst social circles because a man has spurned her or done something she didn't like. His life is destroyed by word of mouth but it is extremely hard for women in such instances to be brought to justice - after all starting rumours is not illegal is it?
If we want equality then we should have it.
Where women falsely accuse of rape they should be subject to the same sentences as a rapist would be and be put on the sex offenders register because in effect she has raped the man, maybe not physically but mentally and emotionally and the truth is that his life will never be the same again. Falsely accusing someone of rape is a heinous crime, and not least because of the effect on the accused. It takes police time and resources from investigating real rape cases. Note: I make a clear distinction between false allegations and the defendant being found not guilty in court.
Seeing as you like the daily fail, here is an article about such false claims. Look at what happens to the girl, a suspended sentence and community service. As one comment says, if the man had no proof of his whereabouts he would likely find himself in court over such an allegation and fighting to prove his innocence. Why is she treated so leniently?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143349/Student-spared-jail-making-false-rape-claim-bid-try-boyfriend-back.html
A second one, where a woman was found guilty and jailed for just eight months after making TWO such claims. Notice how her defense plays on her "learning difficulties" as the reason why she did it? Said she was bullied into it? What, twice? Clutching at straws maybe? Also note that the police spent 90hrs investigating the accusation. Not really the effort made by people who automatically assume the woman is to blame for her own rape, is it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2188112/Mother-jailed-making-TWO-false-rape-claims-men-dating-didnt-liaison.html
A case in the USA:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...accused-rape-signs-Las-Vegas-Locomotives.html
Another in this country:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...accused-rape-signs-Las-Vegas-Locomotives.html
And another:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-claim-caught-trying-cover-lies-Facebook.html
another....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...erved-3-years-false-rape-claim-fantasist.html
more.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ape-claim-invented-extension-course-work.html
The daily fail is a poor excuse for a newspaper and is known to favour 'cry rape' stories and using it to try and prove your point is a little counter productive. So why have I included those links? Just to show that you can back up any argument you want to make by linking to internet pages but that does not make you right or what you are saying more accurate.
Lies damn lies and statistics. I think the truth is that nobody knows what the facts and figures really are.
The current published fact is that charge to conviction rate for rape is 58%, which is above the national average for crime in general. But it is 58% of what?
The CPS VAW report states that for 2010-2011 4,208 cases of rape were brought to prosecution in England and Wales, of which 2,465 resulted in conviction (58%). It also shows that this kind of conviction rate has been consistent since 2007. Likewise, men were the defendants in 98% of sexual offence cases, of which 3,549 out of 6,588 were successfully convicted (74% 2010-2011 figures).
In 2010, nearly 16,000 cases of rape were supposedly reported (depending on your source). Current conviction rates would suggest that only around 16% of perpetrators were bought to justice if that is the way you wanted to spin it. I am sure you could find links on the internet to such figures if you tried. Indeed the quoted figures from the British crime survey on Wikipedia suggests a completely different story to our rape figures when quoting the BCS of 2006-2007.
It states:
Hold on, the CPS VAW report says that 2,021 convictions were made in 2007-2008 in England and Wales alone. What is the difference in 'people' and 'convictions'? Its a bit ambiguous is it not? Did convictions increase 150% in the space of a year or so? How are multiple counts of rape by a single individual incorporated into the figures?
Wikipedia also states that the British Crime Survey shows:
Wikipedia tells me that the female population of England and Wales is approximately 43% (age 15 and above) and in 2006 approximate population was around 53 million (rounded down, so 22 million females (again rounded down).
So 110,000 cases of rape - that is almost double the total recorded sexual offences for that period in England and Wales (57,522)
Based on that statement of fact, and I use the term loosely as you dont say whether that is per year or in a lifetime then we see: if we apply that soley to the 2006 population figures, that 5.5 million females were raped in England and Wales in 2006. That's a quarter of the female population in England and Wales (obviously).
If we apply it to a "1 in 4 women are raped in their lifetime" scenario, and we say the average lifespan of a woman is 84 years (but ignore population growth and changes in demographic for ease of purpose), but assume that rape age is from age 15 onwards then we get approximately 325,500 women being raped each year.
I suspect the 1 in 4 figure is based on the Painter 1991 study, which actually based its findings on only 1,007 women, which is woefully inadequate for a 'national' survey and does not accurately reflect the nation.
So as you can see, depending on what figures you want to use, and what way you want to present the data, you can come up with very differing 'facts'.
I read somewhere that 78% of statistics on the internet are made up. The irony of that single sentence sums it up in my opinion.
I think to quote figures of attrition and hyperbole does not serve your cause. If anything it damages it and makes women even less likely to report rape.
So lets not turn this into a topic of "society blames women for rape" and "we live in a rape culture" headline statements. Maybe start a new discussion to talk about the topic in an open minded and objective way where we can look at the real issues and not just make broad brush and attention grabbing statements that are based in very little fact.
Also, lets spare a thought for the other side of the coin, in the interests of balance, as it is not only women that can have their lives destroyed by rape. Lets also spare a thought for the police who spend hours trying to put the pieces together on behalf of the victim.
If you want to point fingers, maybe try with false reporting of rapes as well as the way figures are massaged to suit government agendas. Even official government figures are probably off because of the 'crime figures' culture we have in this country - but that is not to say you can just take a best guess and market it as the truth or cite inadequate surveys as fact. No government wants to look bad, but it is a little self serving to make out like rape is the only issue affected by this, or quote figures to suit your own agenda when actually there are so many inconsistencies with rape figures that nobody really knows what they are - and that is the truth of the matter, and also the tragedy.
Maybe look to promote very specific national questionnaires rather than ambiguous questions that can be interpreted in a myriad of ways or woefully inadequate questionnaires of only a 1000 people or so (such as the Wake up to Rape survey). Extrapolating figures from a fraction of the population is a very dubious way of finding 'facts'.
My sentiments entirely.
Cheers
Buff
Fantastic post BuffetSlayer, and goes to show just how crazy hurfdurf is coming across. So according to your calculations it's more like 1 in 20, rather then 1 in 4. And that's just if you go with rape reports rather then convictions
Soldato
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It really is so hard to say, and that really is the crux of my argument.
There are no definitive figures so the truth is unknown.
However, that does not mean the truth is quite as severe as some would have you believe.
My other main point is that statistics and figures can be made to fit any argument, as well as being interpreted and presented to fit any agenda.
Buff
Soldato
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Typical man response, take the massive problem of rape, and twist and turn it to make it about them and the tiny comparative problem of false rape claims, further perpetrating the myth that rape is something that doesn't happen and when it does, something fishy is going on with it.
So yea, rapes dont happen. Rapists never get prosecuted.
What am I smoking? And then you tell me rapes don't happen and rapists never get prosecuted? Which has nothing to do with what I am saying? What?