Joe Lycett - Qatar/Beckham debate

[Dirk Diggler]

I can agree with that..... but it's not the same thing is it?
they won that game quite convincingly.

My apologies, I thought you were referring to winning the competition.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

David Beckham... I just think it's utter nonsense that out of all the people involved in this World Cup he's somehow become a target!

Are you aware of what his role is in the tournament? Are you aware of his historical links with the gay rights movement?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

will Joe refuse to work for the collaborator organisation the BBC going forwards?

This question is absurd, there's literally no reason for Lycett to do that - especially when the BBC is helping to highlight the issues.

BBC ignores World Cup opening ceremony in favour of Qatar criticism

UK coverage kicks off with focus on treatment of migrant workers and gay people, and corruption at Fifa

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Yet, they're still participating in it... I mean I'm sure Beckham will no doubt speak out in favour of LGBT rights too at some point.

Completely flawed argument; the BBC aren't promoting Qatar, Beckham is. There's no comparison to be made.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

There is and I just made one:


That is just fact, that isn't flawed, if it was so heinous then boycott it, instead, there are multiple BBC employees flying over there to report on it, they absolutely are promoting their coverage of the event too, just as Beckham is promoting the event.

You're trying to defend the indefensible here, that Beckham should be some target for criticism and no one else, he's clearly being made into a scapegoat and there are many many other people and organisations participating in this world cup while also purportedly supporting LGBT rights.

Babes, I'm an open minded person, but if there's one hole I won't do it's a Dowiehole.

We're done here.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

if a religion gains enough traction to be considered a real religion

Oxymoron alert.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Germany’s protest will reverberate down the years and generations

Even if Hansi Flick’s side go out in the World Cup group stage after the 2-1 defeat by Japan, some things just matter more

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dirk Diggler]

3% of the population may be gay
10% is dying of hunger.

Amazing which issues grab the headlines

99.7% of statistics on the internet are made up on the spot in order to advance a point of view.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I just find it all a bit funny how we tell ourselves that our empty gestures are powerful and impactful. I especially like taking the knee for 10s before the game as the commentators spout crap like “sending the strongest kind of message that discrimination of any kind will not be tolerated” as we very much tolerate it in Qatar.

Taking the knee is literally sending a message against racism, and the very fact that a commentator might interpret that message in a different way from you is the point - to prompt a conversation.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The commentators say that because they have been told to say that. Its a hollow gesture that they do because it takes a few seconds. Who is it sending a message to? Whos mind is it changing? How is it "the strongest kind of message". As I have said, its the modern performative BS that people lap up because they can pat themselves on the back for being "an ally" whilst not actually having to do anything that takes time or effort.

You're taking it all far too literally. The campaign against racism is long and complicated, and things like the knee will come and go as society evolves. There doesn't have to be a premeditated definitive conclusion to be reached - the fact that you're talking about it is success in itself.

The commentators say that because they have been told to say that.

Firstly, you're assuming that like it's fact - and that's significant because it's making the implied assumption that that would be a bad thing; it wouldn't.

Its a hollow gesture that they do because it takes a few seconds

Again, this is not fact; it's your interpretation and that's fine. You've been prompted to think about it, which is good.

Who is it sending a message to? Whos mind is it changing? How is it "the strongest kind of message"

All rhetorical, and any answer is dismissed by default. Not helpful.

As I have said, its the modern performative BS that people lap up because they can pat themselves on the back for being "an ally" whilst not actually having to do anything that takes time or effort.

Like Rosa Parks, what Kaepernick did took courage. Those who follow will inevitably carry less weight as time goes on. However, the fact that it's travelled across continents and endured for years is testament to its impact.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

What impact has it had?

The answer to that is literally in the sentence you've quoted.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Obviously they're not sufficient reasons for something to have impact. Memes travel globally, for years, yet they aren't considered to be 'impactful' for those reasons. What actual impact did it have?

A meme is exactly what I'm claiming it to be. What Rosa Parks did was a meme. If you think a meme isn't impactful then I suggest you read Dr Dawkins book from 1976, because that's where the term was first conceived and I suspect you may be confusing it with pictures of cats.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Oh you didn't just make that comparison.

Of course I did, on what basis could anyone challenge that?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't feed trolls.

What you on, a hunger strike?

If you're not interested in having a conversation then fine, but you really should realise that if you quote someone then subsequently refuse to engage with the reply - choosing to post abrupt insults instead - there's a name for that...

 

[Dirk Diggler]

With people having flags confiscated for having slogans saying simply "women", then shame on anyone who dismisses this as "their country, their rules".

Iran offer powerful show of defiance on day of jeers, tears and joy

The fans made their feelings known before the players did the country proud with a 2-0 World Cup victory over Wales

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dirk Diggler]

What I don't understand with all this is why we're only having the conversations now. Qatar was selected over 10 years ago. Why weren't these issues so high profile back then?

Also, if FIFA is such a poor corrupt organisation, why don't all the big footballing countries just get together and form a breakaway organisation and run their own world cup.

It's been criticised from the start, it's just getting much more publicity now that the tournament has kicked off and the world's media is fixed on events.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Though pro-Palestinian insignia isn't so popular in Europe as some Celtic fans found out:

We also expressed our feelings on the monarchy, that didn't go down too well either.

..And they try to say the liberals among us are easily offended.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

How I miss the days when sport was about sport.

You want to try supporting my team (Celtic) - in Glasgow it's been much more than sport since around 1888.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Is that not the dictionary definition of an oxymoron?

No, that's a genuinely fake definition.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Well, I really don't know what to make of this. The lack of alcohol makes sense, but the choice of fan the author selected to focus on is... Interesting.

...as he gazed at a vast panorama of England supporters around him in Doha – and saw so many faces looking like his own...

Maybe paid actors in the stands is the future after all.

‘Fan culture is changing’: England cheered by diverse crowds in Qatar

Factors including scarcity of alcohol and travel costs have changed the face of England’s support, but will it last?

www.theguardian.com