John 'lion heart' Terry Retires From International Football

[MagicBoy]

Good riddance to disgraceful human being.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Yeah but theres no evidence of it being used in an offensive manner.

****ing black **** looks a bit different to negro particularly when from england.

Thanks for the clarification, I'll leave it there.

I can't stand JT, like most people.

But what annoys me just as much as him is when the tabloids fabricate stories which people take as fact and then ignore the impeding retractions later down the line (because the truth is more boring and usually buried in the middle somewhere).

I can see why it's annoying, there's often perfectly valid reasons to dislike someone and yet when people still believe stories that (may) have no basis in reality it distracts from why you're justified in disliking them.

 

[Tummy]

IMO on 2012 form Jagielka has surpassed him. Very solid when called upon for England of late, even when it was some emergency callup and he wasn't supposed to play he didn't sulk like some players do and put a top performance in. Doing the business at club level too.

When Terry was playing you could make a case for fielding Cole-Terry-Cahill-Johnson because that was 3x Chelsea and 1 ex-Chelsea so in theory a good understanding. Now he's finished it should be a case of pairing either Cahill or Lescott with Jagielka.... maybe some youngster coming through if they prove themselves sufficiently.

I don't think Terry has been near his 'best' for quite a long time and even then personally, I don't think his best was that good. I certainly don't think he was as good as other centre backs this country has had in recent times, (Campbell, Ferdinand, Adams et al)

I think Lescott proved that he was a superior defender at the Euro's (said at the time he was Englands best player along side a good Gerrard) and I think that there have been a group of centre backs that have lost out to a chance at a place in the National side because Terry's name holds more weight.

On Lescott, I didn't rate him that highly, but since going to City he's not looked out of his depth nor did he look out of his depth at International level, I think he's improved and that I'd written him off too early.

Jags, Lescott, Dawson, Cahill, Shawcross are all good alternatives from Terry and are arguably better then him.

 

[[ASSE]Hinchy]

I see on The Guardian website that Rio Ferdinand is keen to make an England return after Terry's retirement.

I can't stand the sheer arrogance of the man. It's so presumptuous to believe that Terry was the only reason he wasn't selected.

 

[Tom84]

I see on The Guardian website that Rio Ferdinand is keen to make an England return after Terry's retirement.

I can't stand the sheer arrogance of the man. It's so presumptuous to believe that Terry was the only reason he wasn't selected.

Does the Guardian's article feature any actual quotes from Ferdinand? Funny that you mention being presumptuous in your post because from what I can tell it's the Guardian who are being presumptuous assuming Ferdinand would be keen on returning now Terry's out of the picture.

Basically you're seeing what you want to see so you can have a rant

 

[[ASSE]Hinchy]

I wouldn't call that a rant

But yes you are correct in that there are no actual quotes from Ferdinand and I did think that at the time. But why would the press lie to me?

 

[foxrocks]

I see on The Guardian website that Rio Ferdinand is keen to make an England return after Terry's retirement.

I can't stand the sheer arrogance of the man. It's so presumptuous to believe that Terry was the only reason he wasn't selected.

I think when they're calling up someone who, at the time, was Liverpool's reserve right back instead of Rio, it's probably fair enough to draw that conclusion.

 

[Cosimo]

I wouldn't call that a rant

If you make a comment about that doesn’t ooze love for Rio then of course it will be seen as a rant by some. I'd check with the press office before you make another.

 

[mmj_uk]

How come the FA are still going after him anyway? surely if a court of law is unable to attain sufficient evidence to find him guilty then a mickey mouse FA hearing won't find anything?

 

[Rusty0611]

How come the FA are still going after him anyway? surely if a court of law is unable to attain sufficient evidence to find him guilty then a mickey mouse FA hearing won't find anything?

Balance of probabilities vs beyond reasonable doubt

 

[mmj_uk]

Balance of probabilities vs beyond reasonable doubt

but surely if the FA punish him based on 'probabilities' Terry can then sue them for defamation of character given that a court of law already found him not guilty?

 

[BaZ87]

I think when they're calling up someone who, at the time, was Liverpool's reserve right back instead of Rio, it's probably fair enough to draw that conclusion.

Maybe at first thought but when you looked at the make-up of the original squad and how it had changed when Jagielka was previously called-up, it was clear that Kelly was being brought in as cover for Johnson with Jagielka and Jones 3rd and 4th choice cb's.

 

[Intratech]

 

[cm1179]

lol

 

[4T5]

@Intratech. WUT

I think it's unfair how everybody is picking on poor old John.

 

[semi-pro waster]

but surely if the FA punish him based on 'probabilities' Terry can then sue them for defamation of character given that a court of law already found him not guilty?

It's the difference in standards between a civil and a criminal case - because for most the sanctions attaching to being found guilty of a criminal offence are higher then the standard of proof required is also higher. People can choose to bring civil cases when someone isn't found guilty of a criminal offence but it's much rarer because of the expense involved and the limited sanctions available under the civil system.

Suing the FA wouldn't be all that likely here and it's also somewhat difficult to claim damage to character if said character/reputation isn't held in all that high regard to begin with - he'd need to be able to prove some form of loss through the FA's actions normally as well which might be hard to do.

 

[grimm]

Deserves quoting

 

[Tunney]

but surely if the FA punish him based on 'probabilities' Terry can then sue them for defamation of character given that a court of law already found him not guilty?

Nope. Defamation, being a civil law matter, is based on a the balance of probabilities too.

The most famous example of beyond reasonable doubt vs. balance of probabilities is the OJ Simpson murder case. OJ Simpson was found not guilty in the criminal trial but guilty in the civil case the family of his victims brought against him. He never went to jail but was successfully sued for millions.

 

[HangTime]

Maybe at first thought but when you looked at the make-up of the original squad and how it had changed when Jagielka was previously called-up, it was clear that Kelly was being brought in as cover for Johnson with Jagielka and Jones 3rd and 4th choice cb's.

Yep, really annoyed me at the time about how people were making a big hoo-har about Kelly being selected above Rio, they play different positions and as you say the squad had no reserve rightback so it made sense to fill that gap if calling on a player from outside the primary standby list. How about Jack Butland, playing in League One or summat wasn't it, called up instead of Rio? Disgraceful!

 

[Shamikebab]

Well couldn't Jones have been reserve right back?