Junior doctor strike: Union's pay demands unrealistic, says Steve Barclay

Mrwong

Mrwong

Mrwong

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www.bbc.co.uk

Junior doctor strike: Union's pay demands unrealistic, says Steve Barclay

Many junior doctors will take part in a four-day walkout after the Easter weekend in a continuing pay dispute.
www.bbc.co.uk

I was reading about doctors going on strike. Then I read some want to move abroad etc... I was thinking if they do not like the pay they should leave the industry or move abroad.
The NHS will only change if it collapses and forces the stupid people of this country to go out and riot like the French. Otherwise, we will keep going round and round in circles and more people will die in the long run.
This country needs to constantly inflate property prices as a contribution component to total wealth, I personally don't think the UK can balance it books anymore.
 
xaldub said:
They already are leaving, or using their qualifications as a stepping stone to other non-medical careers. Vacant consultant posts are at an all-time high and have been increasing year after year for the last decade. This strike action is the final pushback from those who remain. Mr Barclay's words, painting doctors as pariahs, will only serve to inflame the situation. This current government is despised by the medical profession.
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I dont think the current government should take all the blame, I think Blair and the Cons of the 90s were the ones that initiated the foundations and the path. Now it is about tweeting and squeezing to try and slow it down.
 
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Semple said:
It's a no win situation really. Doctors will move to private healthcare because they can charge more for their services, which means wealthy people won't have any issues getting to see a doctor. Meanwhile with less and less doctors left in the NHS, anyone looking to use the NHS for healthcare related stuff has an enormous wait time, or basic treatment. It will undoubtedly mean more of the poorer end of society will die earlier etc.
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Depends on the level of wealth, if your the average middle income earner, while you are in work you have company health insurance. Once they retire and do not have access to company insurance polices it becomes very expensive and/or possible not going to get insured, they too will face issues.
Only those with extreme wealth will be able to afford private care in their later years. Many in this country do not understand this logic flow.
 
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adidan said:
Yup, we've been asset stripped and too many people have had their hand in the till.
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I know a few people that are millionaires. One has 140 homes ( not in London and growing) that he rents out to local governments to house asylum seekers, he is now moving to Dubai and spoke about offshoring to Bahamas last time we spoke.
He spoke about splitting his company so he can apply to be a housing association to take advantage of grants, it would end up benefiting both of his entities.
 
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ci_newman said:
I don't know enough about the specifics, but asking for a 35% payrise don't seem entirely credible at the moment.
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It is not a 35% pay rise. 10% would be inflation for the last year, the other 25% would be associated with below inflation wage increase over 10 years or so.
35% pay rise as some call it, is not a pay rise.
Any pay rise most likely be a between 0% and 5%, if that.
TFL train drivers pay of 75K may seem a lot, but they have kept their wages link to inflation, so even thou it seems a lot, it is not.
Even then it is a pay cut when you factor in fiscal drag.
 
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UTT said:
We had 2 years of blowing smoke up their behinds in the name of covid

Stay home, protect the nhs, bang your pans for the nhs, shop discounts and nhs only opening hours

Whilst many did a fine job there were a lot that hid. From experience it became impossible to get to see a doctor, everything bar covid was kicked into the long grass

My MIL is still awaiting a hip op over a year down the line from it was supposed to happen

Public backing for these strikes is probably at an all time low
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It was more about protecting the institution rather than what the institution does.
To disguise the failures of a broken health care system, and the impact of selling real estate over the last 30 years, and to top it off selling below market rate. :cry:
 
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JRed said:
£75k per year is more than twice the national average salary so it is fairly safe to say that is a lot.
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Not really, if the vast amount of the population wages over 20 years have grown below inflation, then at glance it would seem a lot. Lets say inflation over 20 years is at 5%, lets say the majority of the population have only 2% per year and the minority have had 5% per year increase every year.
Example lets say both two people start a job both on equal pay grades A which is worth £20000. They stay with in same pay grade category for 20 years.
Both start with £20000
A inflation is worked out at 2% 20 years later £29,826.56
B inflation is worked out at 5% 20 years £54,252.81

When one small group always goes on strike it is easy to get that link, what has happened with TFL train drivers.
If the others are to scared to go on strike then they will not. Eventually the majority will, but will have to accept a lower inflation for all. The government can play them against each other.
 
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A2Z said:
They get £64k not £75k. Not allowed to do overtime either.

In the 10 years I've been working for TfL/LU, every single year I've had a pay rise of minimum February's RPI. Some years it's been 1.4%, others like last year it was 8.4%. This is due to our unions agreeing a pay deal to ensure our pay does not get eroded by inflation.

So whilst our pay has increased, it's really only been matching inflation. Every employer should be doing the same IMO.
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This is why tfl pay is higher and seems they are overpaid, when really the rest are underpaid, ie not keep up with inflation.
 
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Buddy said:
Around 75k for Full time salaried. However, two important things :

Full time is traditionally 37.5 hours. I would say depending on workload most end up doing 40 - 48 hours a week.

The other factor - GP practice income has barely moved over the years. About 1% a year. Meaning, everything comes out of partner income as they can't keep up with inflation. For most GPs this means they tend not to salary , prefer locum and pick and choose what they do.

As a result there's been a massive partner exodus. Single handed practices have been collapsing across the country. Hell, even private firms who hand select the easiest patients cannot make it work :

www.telegraph.co.uk

Babylon Health virtual GP app faces cash crunch

Start-up championed by Matt Hancock could have as little as three months worth of cash in the bank
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
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They are the ones I have used.
 
NHS access structure needs to change if you want to have any NHS left.
Do away with transgender operations etc, those can be paid by the individual.

Do what some middle eastern countries do, no free access for none natives, ie place a surcharge or force those that visit the country to get insurance pretty much easily done by attached it to travel tickets.

You can't be to left if you want free NHS, if you are and still don't want to do the above then you can not complain when it falls apart or disappears.

Pretty much woke etc are to blame, as we can't spread limited resources to everyone or every type none medical emergency.

Sometimes you need to be hard and selfish for the greater good, something most people in this country forget about.
 
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fez said:
The amount of money spent on operations related to trans people is minuscule and foreign nationals can't just come over here and get free health care. You will get basic things like A&E but you can't come over here for a heart bypass etc.

The issue with the NHS is underfunding. Awful structure that should have been updated/changed years ago. The massive rise is costs associated with delivering modern healthcare. The massive rise in poor health in the population. The rise in life expectency.

I would wager that trans operations and people from abroad using the NHS probably accounts for about 0.1% of budget. Perhaps less.
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Sorry that is total utter rubbish. like Tescos says " Every little bit helps".

We British are being asset stripped by the whole pyramid scheme from foreign [countries, corporations right down to the individual]. We British are the laughing stock of the entire world.
 
fez said:
There is only so much you can do to stop people coming from abroad and using the NHS for some things unless you want to watch people die. Someone comes over heavily pregnant and goes into labour, what do you do? Sorry love, no insurance so you and your babies can die. Its just not as simple as people make out to fix and would cost us too much.
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Yes that is what you do if they do not have insurance. We even do it to our own, NHS post code lottery.
 
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fez said:
We're the laughing stock of the world because we haven't changed with the times and keep repeatedly shooting ourselves in the foot.

We are a laughing stock because we privatised all our rails and now they subsidise rail travel in countries in Europe.

We are a laughing stock because we left the EU and as a result have one of the worst economic growth forecasts in the G20 nations (Russia are worse to be fair, yay).

We are a laughing stock because we keep electing the same idiots to run the country despite them making mistake after massive mistake.

As to "every little helps", no it doesn't unless it actually delivers value for money. If it costs you £30m/year to run a system to try and stop people using the UK for its healthcare and it saves you £25m its pointless.

As I said above, its completely untenable to deny everyone healthcare without insurance unless you want to watch people and their children die.
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You are in serious denial about how it all works in this country compared to other countries, with your attitude we are all doomed.

What is better 1) Everyone suffers ,or 2) those that are not British suffer.
You need to choose.
If you choose the 1 ( to eliminate everyone suffers) then please do not complain about the poor performance of the NHS etc... Just pay up and pay more in taxes and do not complain.
 
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tom_nieto said:
The knights move thinking in this thread is amazing. Not sure how junior doctors have any bearing at all over whether money is recouped from overseas service users? They certainly don’t have any bearing on how GP practices are run.

Public sector workers deserve proper pay.
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It does have a direct influence, cutting costs less doctors hired more work for those as doctors. (Staff Resourcing)
 
neocon said:
How do you stop non resident women entering the UK heavily pregnant? Because you can't really leave them to elements once they are here.
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Simple get transport companies to include insurance on their ticket sales. I have been to countries were they would not see you unless you have insurance and even then they will phone up the insurance company to see if it is valid.
 
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