Just watched Linus's performance results of the 5000 series

[Poneros]

I've never seen a CPU get such a beating since the Sandybridge days. WOW! First time I've even been slightly tempted to upgrade mine, I have to say, and that's saying something because my 6800K is no slouch!
And more importantly, when I see real scenes being benchmarked in games I know really do put a stress on it & where the CPU difference really is apparent in gameplay (stutters etc).

Spoiler: CLICK ME!

Is there any truth to the arguement that the new consoles having 8 cores will mean game Devs are much more likely to utilise that leaving the 6 core 5600x dead in the water very soon...

Absolutely none. Na-da. Zero. Zilch. CPU-level performance is very deeply rooted in the game's code base and you will not see it perform much better on consoles than on PC purely due to API (when we also have DX12 & Vulkan).
Furthermore, it's irrelevant how many cores consoles have because the simple fact is there's real-world limitations of how well you can program for them for a game, so it's still 1-2 cores that are most important and will dictate the baseline, with the rest doing cleaning up work. So 6 vs 8 is going to not matter at all.

 

[Xelene]

I get that, but if the consoles are utilizing all 8 cores effectively... Can the 6 cores of zen 3 keep up?

It's complex

I'm not an expert here, just have some level of passing knowledge from coding some games (not engines)

(threads/cores are interchangeable here)

Engines typically have a master thread that distributes the work to other threads, the main / master thread absolutely benefits from the highest throughput it can get; you want this running on the fastest core you have because it's absolutely locked to the render pipeline and responsible for polling your IO

The other threads are used in a dispatch basis, i.e. they are given parcels of work to do and signal when it's done. Clearly a faster thread will be done quicker.

So what you are looking for is the fastest main thread possible and then some extra threads that can do the work quickly and not block stuff up.

TL;DR a zen3 six core will process this stuff way faster than a zen2 8 core in most cases. (exceptions being on computation that is scalable across threads, e.g. encoding)

 

[NoNameNoNumber]

Thanks for your reply guys. So why would the consoles not use a more efficient (faster) lesser core count/tdp chip as opposed to opting for 8 slower cores?

 

[SnR3]

Thanks for your reply guys. So why would the consoles not use a more efficient (faster) lesser core count/tdp chip as opposed to opting for 8 slower cores?

Console does not use exact same die they are simply custom made. It's not so simple to explain when nobody had a look at those yet

 

[NoNameNoNumber]

Ok
Just trying to make the fact I have a 5800x sat at the DPD depot seem a solid idea

 

[ljt]

Thanks for your reply guys. So why would the consoles not use a more efficient (faster) lesser core count/tdp chip as opposed to opting for 8 slower cores?

If it's any help the new consoles basically use a form of a lower clocked 3700X, so I can't see the 3700X outperforming a 5600X in gaming going forward.

 

[Poneros]

Thanks for your reply guys. So why would the consoles not use a more efficient (faster) lesser core count/tdp chip as opposed to opting for 8 slower cores?

Price/performance, TDP concerns and most importantly - they will still be overwhelmingly GPU-bound. So the CPUs in the next-gen consoles are going to already be overkill for their GPU-power.

 

[rn2]

I'm glad that I started this thread, it's been very interesting. In the end we will buy what we want to buy, as long as we are all happy with our purchaces!

 

[Zeeflyboy]

Furthermore, it's irrelevant how many cores consoles have because the simple fact is there's real-world limitations of how well you can program for them for a game, so it's still 1-2 cores that are most important and will dictate the baseline, with the rest doing cleaning up work. So 6 vs 8 is going to not matter at all.

I would suggest that isn’t entirely true... it isn’t an inherent limitation but rather something that is dependant upon how the engines are coded and how much time you are willing to spend on it.

Code correctly for it and you can make use of a significant number of cores very effectively - take a look at how star citizen manages its core loads and it’s incredible for example - it will dispatch significant work to all my 24 threads and no single thread gets even close to 100%. I believe they claim it will effectively utilise up to around 32 threads if available but haven’t been able to test that personally.

So I wouldn’t agree it’s a real-world limitation, but rather a question of how much work developers are willing to do in order to break work off the main thread and make sure everything still remains thread safe. The real world limitation is diminishing returns, but I don’t think 6-8 cores is anywhere near that point.

I would absolutely expect games to start making use of 8 cores more effectively as time goes on. I don’t think that the consoles will necessarily cause 6 core PC owners any issues though because already we are seeing 6 cores in desktop that are significantly more performant than the 8 cores in the consoles... that is not to say though that an 8 core desktop may not start to outperform a 6 core desktop in gaming more often over the next few years for those chasing the highest end of frame rates and willing/able to buy a beefy enough GPU to stay out the way.

 

[jigger]

Thanks for your reply guys. So why would the consoles not use a more efficient (faster) lesser core count/tdp chip as opposed to opting for 8 slower cores?

The consoles probably aren’t targeting more than 50fps so a frame every 16ms is all the CPU needs to produce. Plus the consoles will get a little performance from its components compared to a PC.

 

[DeathStorm]

I get that, but if the consoles are utilizing all 8 cores effectively... Can the 6 cores of zen 3 keep up?

All this time and energy spent counting cores, you could be enjoying those games instead even with much older CPUs...

 

[NoNameNoNumber]

All this time and energy spent counting cores, you could be enjoying those games instead even with much older CPUs...

Still rocking my 6 core 3930k B)

 

[Sweeet]

There's a lot of misconception going around about the game console's 8 core CPU's, with people comparing them to an 8 core desktop CPU. Consoles do not use all 8 cores for gaming, they use 5-6 at most. The other cores are dedicated to running the console OS among other things.

This is why 6 cores is still more than enough for gaming and will be by the time you upgrade your CPU again. Game devs are not developing for more than 6 cores and won't do until consoles have more than 5-6 cores available to them.

Getting a 5800X to "future proof" yourself for future gaming is a moot point and will be for quite some time. We're talking 6-7 years if they stick to the current release cycle. Yeah sure there will be games that can take advantage of all 8 cores, but those games are very niche and far and few between. The vast majority of games will run just as well on a 5600X as they would on a 5800X.

Don't be fooled by the hype, more isn't better if you're never going to take full advantage of those extra cores.

 

[stooeh]

I've never seen a CPU get such a beating since the Sandybridge days. WOW! First time I've even been slightly tempted to upgrade mine, I have to say, and that's saying something because my 6800K is no slouch!
And more importantly, when I see real scenes being benchmarked in games I know really do put a stress on it & where the CPU difference really is apparent in gameplay (stutters etc).

Spoiler: CLICK ME!

Absolutely none. Na-da. Zero. Zilch. CPU-level performance is very deeply rooted in the game's code base and you will not see it perform much better on consoles than on PC purely due to API (when we also have DX12 & Vulkan).
Furthermore, it's irrelevant how many cores consoles have because the simple fact is there's real-world limitations of how well you can program for them for a game, so it's still 1-2 cores that are most important and will dictate the baseline, with the rest doing cleaning up work. So 6 vs 8 is going to not matter at all.

Ah Jedi Fallen Order - one of a few games to expose single core limitations of my 5820K in a couple of places even at 1440p

 

[Dr Who]

I think he is being critical. I dont necessarly disagree with what hes saying. Hes right in that, the 5800x is a lot more money, for a little more performance in gaming. And no where near as good at the 5900x at work applications.

The 5900x is marginally better at gaming then the 5800x, but also only marginally more expensive.

So, what hes saying is for gaming, just get the 5600x as your wasting your money for a margin of perfomance getting a 5800x, but...............

5800x is still the better chip for gaming then the 5600x. So just depends on how you value the performance to the cost.

Because 8 core CCX'x are harder to produce, they have a lot of 6 core ccx's that they can sell cheap, hence the price premium of the 8 core CCX chips

 

[benparker]

Linus has addressed his review - he used faster memory than most reviewers.

tech tubers will have more test videos coming out. Ryzen 5000 appears to gain a significantly more performance with fast ram

How fast were they?

 

[benparker]

You shouldn't be watching Linus for this stuff, Hardware Unboxed and Gamers Nexus are much better for detail. I'd err to upside down Steve for being methodical.

Jazy2cents any good?

 

[Combat Fighter]

Because 8 core CCX'x are harder to produce, they have a lot of 6 core ccx's that they can sell cheap, hence the price premium of the 8 core CCX chips

So basically all the left over crap goes into 5600x.

 

[humbug]

I've never seen a CPU get such a beating since the Sandybridge days. WOW! First time I've even been slightly tempted to upgrade mine, I have to say, and that's saying something because my 6800K is no slouch!
And more importantly, when I see real scenes being benchmarked in games I know really do put a stress on it & where the CPU difference really is apparent in gameplay (stutters etc).

Spoiler: CLICK ME!

Absolutely none. Na-da. Zero. Zilch. CPU-level performance is very deeply rooted in the game's code base and you will not see it perform much better on consoles than on PC purely due to API (when we also have DX12 & Vulkan).
Furthermore, it's irrelevant how many cores consoles have because the simple fact is there's real-world limitations of how well you can program for them for a game, so it's still 1-2 cores that are most important and will dictate the baseline, with the rest doing cleaning up work. So 6 vs 8 is going to not matter at all.

10900K: 109 FPS
5900/5950X: 131 FPS

131 / 109 = 1.20 (+20%) and it looks GPU bound, even at 720P.

 

[jigger]

10900K: 109 FPS
5900/5950X: 131 FPS

131 / 109 = 1.20 (+20%) and it looks GPU bound, even at 720P.

I was thinking the same when looking at the games that show 40% gains. They are probably maxing out the graphics card.