Kitchen build log with structural work

Steeps · 21 Apr 2017 at 13:04

Love a good build thread, read a few on here and got ideas for suppliers so it's only fair this forum gets to see the destruction that was encouraged from other build threads.

Bit of background, used to move house a lot and every house got treated to an extension, double glazing, improvements... then moved on, so this is the first house where we're actually having to re-do work we've done. I moved back in with my parents as it was more convenient for work and because rent/house prices have shot up 25% just as I was ready to buy. 4 bed detached house extended by the previous owner to 5, large reception rooms but a really tiny kitchen (was also extended by the previous owner but still far too small). After 18 years and too much "Kirsty and Phil" it is time to finally give the house the size of kitchen it really needs to live in and for selling on in the future.

Forgot to get a perfect "before" photo so straight into demolition. Wide angle lens makes kitchen look bigger than it was:

Old kitchen wasn't in bad shape, bit of water damage on the underside of the worktops and laminate peeling from behind the cupboards, but structurally it wasn't too bad.

The one thing I hated with the old kitchen was the 2ft3in door to gain access, this used to be the bathroom door and it was never made wider. The doorway into the dining room was put in by us when the kitchen was done 18 years ago.

View from dining room side, this wall is coming down. New blockwork in to support steel for the upstairs rooms.

Wall removed!

Parents thought I was nuts for suggesting this at first, but eventually accepted that a 2ft3in door to a room nearly 22ft long when all the other doors are large wasn't right, so that wall had to be modified too. New doorway will be 4ft wide.

Plaster work done on ceiling/new walls. Oven reinstalled to where it will be located in new kitchen.

We're taking our time with this project, all of the old kitchen still functions/is connected so we're now in a position with exact wall dimensions to plan and order the new kitchen. As it will take 3-4 weeks to deliver this gives us a chance to tidy up the whole room with fresh plaster, paint and prepare with minimal disruption to living in the house.

I've got renders/plans but they are on a different PC. Will upload them soon

novaenough · 21 Apr 2017 at 14:12

Looks like it'll be a great improvement.
Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Brookert · 21 Apr 2017 at 14:39

How difficult and what sort of planning was needed for the steel to the ceiling. I'm looking to do exactly the same on a project coming up.

Siliconslave · 21 Apr 2017 at 14:48

You don't need planning, but you will need building regs sign off (in theory, the reality of them ever finding out / even checking the works been done are minimal)

That wiring though :eek:

Steeps · 21 Apr 2017 at 14:55

For the steel our builder took measurements and sent them off to a structural engineer, got a 2 page document back with all the workings and requirements for the "C" beam (easier to box in with one solid edge). Documentation was submitted to local council and it was signed off within a few days.

Wiring was a bit more unexpected, we knew at that point there was the light switch for the dining room and the mains down for the oven housing (used to be in the area before the dining room doorway), but we always assumed the electrics for the sockets were on a ring around from near the hob rather than dropping down next to the oven. Also in that bundle was the old wiring for under cabinet lighting. It's all now been chased along the edge of the ceiling and down the walls into the correct places and a centre channel laid so power can be supplied to the island unit.

Steeps · 21 Apr 2017 at 19:27

Few more photos from this week. Doors were a little more complicated than we'd hoped and it reduced the opening by a few inches but very happy with the results. Secretly I've always wanted "star trek" doors, putting in regular ones would have blocked access around the planned island and the closest cupboards to that wall, this way we can keep the doors open 95% of the time like we currently do and close it off if needed.

Showing the door in the cassette. Usually these are built into studwork but as the brick wall was already there it was just as easy to fasten it to the wall. This also gives the wall in the hallway a bit more depth which matches other doorways.

Doors closed from hall side

More fresh plaster on the walls

Structural work complete, painting starts this weekend (ceiling first, walls still need to dry)

wedrum · 21 Apr 2017 at 19:40

wow what a difference that makes.

Buffman · 21 Apr 2017 at 20:46

Looks good! How much where the steels/removing the walls out of interest? I've got to do them end of this year In my kitchen (T joined RSJ and the builders quoted me over £4k!). I think I may be able to get it cheaper when I get other quotes however.

Are you significant moving the kitchen stuff? Drains/pipework /gas?

Andyt_uk · 21 Apr 2017 at 20:58

The Craig said:
Looks good! How much where the steels/removing the walls out of interest? I've got to do them end of this year In my kitchen (T joined RSJ and the builders quoted me over £4k!). I think I may be able to get it cheaper when I get other quotes however.

I did one in my last house, just under a 3m span. Steel was £90, £30 for some acro's for a few days, £240 on structural engineer and some change on mortar. Less than £400 all in and just a few hours of time. Fairly straight forward job, just have a good talk with the engineer when he is there, get your monies worth. Depending on your walls, you may need to knock up some concrete/block pillars to sit the steels on. I'll have to do this in our current place when we take the garage wall down as the wall is made from the thermolite bricks and its unlikely to hold the steel properly. That length is close to 4/5m as well and should come in at under £500 doing it myself.

Buffman · 21 Apr 2017 at 21:05

Andyt_uk said:
I did one in my last house, just under a 3m span. Steel was £90, £30 for some acro's for a few days, £240 on structural engineer and some change on mortar. Less than £400 all in and just a few hours of time. Fairly straight forward job, just have a good talk with the engineer when he is there, get your monies worth. Depending on your walls, you may need to knock up some concrete/block pillars to sit the steels on. I'll have to do this in our current place when we take the garage wall down as the wall is made from the thermolite bricks and its unlikely to hold the steel properly. That length is close to 4/5m as well and should come in at under £500 doing it myself.

Did you do it yourself?

. I'll be getting men in to do it with the required insurance etc. To be fair the RSJ I need is twin parallel beams with a second interlocking T beam all on padstones. Fairly complex for a bungalow!

(I've already had the structural engineer in which cost circa 300quid)

rexehuk · 21 Apr 2017 at 21:54

I have a friend who just did this to back of house, cost him about 2.7k with builder to put a beam over back and remove central pillar.

With talks here of 500... Oh so tempting to do this. Was planning 2 meter bifold and 2x2 meter glass pane... However a full span bi-fold would be beautiful.

Looks great op, open plan the way to go.

Aberfala · 22 Apr 2017 at 07:06

That's great, it really makes a huge difference.

I love the sliding doors.

snips86x · 22 Apr 2017 at 07:20

Looks fantastic!

Andyt_uk · 22 Apr 2017 at 08:21

The Craig said:
Did you do it yourself? . I'll be getting men in to do it with the required insurance etc. To be fair the RSJ I need is twin parallel beams with a second interlocking T beam all on padstones. Fairly complex for a bungalow!

(I've already had the structural engineer in which cost circa 300quid)

Yup, just with the help of an uncle & friend. In fairness it was a straight run so simple too do. Anything joining would certainly be more complex/expensive but I think they always like to inflate the prices as it looks like a bigger job than it really is.

Rooms looking good so far OP, have you decided where you're getting units from?

Steeps · 22 Apr 2017 at 13:24

I'll have to dig out the original quote, but we arranged a fixed price to make good the room(s) with the builder so they got the structural calcs, brought in plumber to remove old radiator pipes we'd completely forgotten about, sparky to move sockets and switches (and fix that mess!), carpenter to help with the doors, plastering and waste removal. There's two kitchen's worth of mess that needed cleaning up, artex on walls and roof etc. Once the new kitchen is ready to be fitted and we completely strip out the old one, fresh plaster will be going on those walls. I think the quote was around 4k for everything and we will have had tradesmen on site for ~12 days by the time the rest of the cabinets come off, usually 2 at a time.

We were lucky with the steel because the floor joists above had some overlap so they only needed to acro one side and could slot the steel in the other.

Will be ordering the kitchen from www.diykitchens.co.uk . Did the usual look around the hardware stores, some local places and Wren... At this stage we're just ordering cabinets and worktops and sourcing appliances elsewhere. For a run of 20 cabinets Wren came back with a "best price" of 16k, not including any appliances! Diykitchens wanted 4k for the same run delivered. We made the trip up to visit the showroom so we could see exactly what we were getting in terms of cabinet quality and samples, parents worried it would be cardboard with a layer of gloss like everything ordered online so going to the showroom really helped. Keeping the kitchen practical, cream matt doors and a laminate worktop and simple LED underlights. Still using traditional light fittings with GU10 LEDs instead of spots in the ceiling. I love my tech and lighting, could easily have gone with floor level kickboard lights, RGB the cabinet lighting (still could if I can source some good RGBW that isn't too clinical), HUE ceiling spots and in cabinet frosted RGB lighting, but this wouldn't have been in keeping with the rest of the house.

Progress will be slow from now as the kitchen will take 3-4 weeks to arrive, will upload the final renders later today.

Valo · 22 Apr 2017 at 14:10

That's going to look great once it's finished. Looking forward to seeing the progress over the coming weeks.

rexehuk · 22 Apr 2017 at 15:10

@Steeps that's really good. We're currently doing same thing, getting designed with wren and using diykitchens.

How did they handle the ordering? Did you just send them the designs and they said ok order xyz?

Subbed to follow! Look forward to pictures.

Steeps · 22 Apr 2017 at 15:27

We designed ourselves. Before getting the builders in we'd measured both rooms (inc wall thickness) and drawn it up in sketchup, most cabinets are available in anything from 300-1200mm and standard appliance housings are 600mm so drawing it up is quite easy. DIY list all their unit types and cabinets individually so it's easy to find what you want and spec it into your own plan. They are working on a full room planner you can draw up yourself but it hasn't been launched yet (was playing with it in their showroom). Ordering we're doing this afternoon, just a case of speccing the unit style, the colour, then going through and adding each unit to cart and checkout like a normal online shop. We took our design to Wren for a quote rather than letting them design it for us as we already knew what we wanted. They wouldn't drop from their £16k price tag (nearly £800 a cabinet).

Had to wait until the room was complete before ordering because we were working to a 20mm margin of error on both walls of the "L" shape

Steeps · 23 Apr 2017 at 01:08

Sketchup renders of before/after, not really to scale:

I would have preferred a full length worktop/breakfast bar on the island but parents wanted a drop so they could take regular chairs.
Full size fridge/freezer in old dining room, full height storage next to oven housing. Bin storage under island unit. Gas needs moving about 1m but plumbing is staying where it is. Electrics are done.

In terms of cabinet/worktop space we are only gaining the island and another tall unit, but the flow in the room will be so much easier with space to cook, bake, sort shopping and washing up which usually ends up being done at the same time.

Steeps · 2 May 2017 at 23:30

Kitchen order is in, appliances sorted (apart from oven, it has already been decided what oven it is and where from, but just to make sure we need a list of 8 different ovens we are not going to buy and 6 different suppliers to make sure we are getting the best features for the price).

Turns out the DIY Kitchens showroom is just that, we had got our heart set on using the laminate upstand as shown in their showroom behind a gas hob... nope not allowed! All sorted now. Delivery in 3 weeks time as our fitter isn't free until then. Now we need to decide which of the identical shades of blue we would like the walls to be (again I wanted bright orange but it's not that sort of kitchen).

Room has had 3 coats of white, starting to look really big. Should have more progress at the weekend.