Soldato
I think its probably more down to the fact he destroyed both his and Ricciardos race in Russia! Doesn't look good for sponsors/race team with your team mate taking you out!
Kvyat
- Thread starter andicole0
- Start date
But being repeatedly petulant over team radio about why your teammate won't let you overtake him is?
Man of Honour
Vettel had a puncture no? Meaning he couldn't take the corner at full speed.
Sure, Kvyat had no way of knowing about the puncture but it is unfair to say Vettel randomly decided to slow down.
Soldato
Not taking points off the team is it? End of the day, constructor finishing position is way more important and an over-eager driver taking himself and team mate out isn't the best of ways to go about it from a business point of view. Personally I see it as nothing more than racing incidents and need more drivers to actually go for these moves!
I'm more supposed that Horner didn't cry and say that Rebull was leaving F1 first and that if Kvyat had a Mercedes engine and was on pole position at the start of the race he wouldn't have crashed.
They shouldn't have moved him, end of the day the drivers are prepared for their team and engineers and car they have worked on in the off season.
They shouldn't have moved him, end of the day the drivers are prepared for their team and engineers and car they have worked on in the off season.
WOW!!! I had to read the breaking news twice. That was shockingly quick for Red Bull to make such a massive change. I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but could Max have received an offer from another team at the front? With some quick thinking from Red Bull, they decided to kill two birds with one stone and put Max in the main Red Bull team. This move marks the respect, loyalty and support Red Bull have for Max, not only for now but long term.
He was slowing down for two reasons, one because perez in front had a puncture and because he had damage to his rear which frankly kvyat should have been more mindful of. Hamilton managed to slow down no problem behind perez and to the side of vettel so kvyat should have been paying attention.
However, this is extremely harsh on him, though I suspect Red bull were worried they might lose max so promoted him sooner. Frankly as good as verstappen is I don't think he's done enough to warrant a top seat but hey ho.
Associate
It's extremely harsh on Kyvat that hes been made an excuse to promote Vestappen to Red Bull.
I think the FIA should be looking at how a driver contracted to a different team can be 'promoted' to another team. Its obvious that Toro Rosso are still the Red Bull B team but it makes a mockery of contracts and the alleged independence between the teams. I know the FIA are a complete joke but this should not be like football.
As for the incidents.
China was at most a racing incident, its frankly a joke that any blame be apportioned to Kyvat. There was a gaping space on the inside apex and he took it, the fact that Vettel over-reacted and Raikkonen was rejoining the track and they collided had nothing to do with Kyvat and frankly Ferrari should have had a word with their two driver rather than blame a third party.
In Russia, I agree the turn two collision was Kyvat's fault, he didnt judge the speed and braking in front well enough and he smacked vettel in the back.
The turn three collision i'm less sure about. First Mcknifeys comment about him ruining Riccardo's race. From looking at the onboards i think Vettel bangs his side pod at the same time that Perez runs over Riccardo's front wing which was always going to happen without the contact from Vettel. So assuming Mcknifey meant a pit stop for a new front wing that can't be laid at Kyvat' door.
I don't understand why Vettel lifted off but he was fighting the car in the first part of the corner, I don't believe that he slowed down for Perez either as he was side by side with a Williams at the time of the second contact, it was'nt until after this that Perez appeared to loose traction. I suspect Vettel lifted off as he could feel the rear end had lost downforce due to damage from the first collision and backed off. Kyvat following close behind with a loss of downforce from a a damaged front wing couldnt react in time and span Vettel off and this was dealt with during in the race with a drive through penalty.
I think the FIA should be looking at how a driver contracted to a different team can be 'promoted' to another team. Its obvious that Toro Rosso are still the Red Bull B team but it makes a mockery of contracts and the alleged independence between the teams. I know the FIA are a complete joke but this should not be like football.
As for the incidents.
China was at most a racing incident, its frankly a joke that any blame be apportioned to Kyvat. There was a gaping space on the inside apex and he took it, the fact that Vettel over-reacted and Raikkonen was rejoining the track and they collided had nothing to do with Kyvat and frankly Ferrari should have had a word with their two driver rather than blame a third party.
In Russia, I agree the turn two collision was Kyvat's fault, he didnt judge the speed and braking in front well enough and he smacked vettel in the back.
The turn three collision i'm less sure about. First Mcknifeys comment about him ruining Riccardo's race. From looking at the onboards i think Vettel bangs his side pod at the same time that Perez runs over Riccardo's front wing which was always going to happen without the contact from Vettel. So assuming Mcknifey meant a pit stop for a new front wing that can't be laid at Kyvat' door.
I don't understand why Vettel lifted off but he was fighting the car in the first part of the corner, I don't believe that he slowed down for Perez either as he was side by side with a Williams at the time of the second contact, it was'nt until after this that Perez appeared to loose traction. I suspect Vettel lifted off as he could feel the rear end had lost downforce due to damage from the first collision and backed off. Kyvat following close behind with a loss of downforce from a a damaged front wing couldnt react in time and span Vettel off and this was dealt with during in the race with a drive through penalty.
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Watch the video, 22 seconds in you can see the closing speed between vettel and perez, he had to slow down. You can also see perez car wiggle as the tyre deflates.
Soldato
Yup, when Vettel was shoved into Ricciardo, Ricciardo was moved towards Perez and clipped his right-rear, which is where Perez got his puncture. Vettel was backing off (alongside Hamilton on his left) because of Perez slowing dramatically.
As I said, nobody else hit Perez, or Vettel or Kyvat, so why Kyvat wasn't able to react is beyond me - I can only think he was on the radio about turn 2 and needing a front wing and wasn't paying full attention to what was developing in front of him.
We don't know if Vettel had a puncture - it looked like it from his acceleration from turn 2, but he wasn't slowing due to that (it would have been on the lesser loaded left side and not enough to slow to that extent - there wasn't even any visible puncture from Kyvat's onboard camera) he was slowing because Perez was slowing in front of him (who did have a puncture on the heavily loaded right-rear).
Exactly bang on, I don't think people have watched vettels on board, he wasn't slowing down for no reason. It was 100% kvyat not paying attention.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
There is a pretty good shot of the incident from the crowd, Vettel is going very slowly Kvyat was going slowly and a Toro Rosso, maybe both of them, were going much faster than Kvyat behind him and almost hit Kvyat. Vettel slowed, Kvyat slowed just not enough and Vettel was a pretty big distance behind Perez, more than far enough behind to not slow down as much as he did.
China was plain great racing, he got a podium with a car that wasn't really fast enough for it based off that move, it was a great drive. Yeah, Russia was bad but every driver has bad races.
I would bank on this being 98% because Jos is negotiating with Ferrari/Merc/Mclaren and said to Horner in the past two weeks, give us a seat now or we're signing a pre-contract with whichever of those teams was offering the best deal. I think Kvyat is decent and has a decent career ahead of him however top teams wanting to win championships need to secure drivers like Verstappen, if he's not with you he's against you and he's the kind of driver who looks capable of stealing titles from you when he's with a different team.
I also think Kvyat being Russian plays against him in a worldwide fan, team appeal sense. Russians speaking english sound very, un-natural, almost uncomfortable. Verstappen sounds far more relaxed and clear speaking English. Ricciardo is loved by fans everywhere, as much as winning and speed on track is important, ability to do well in a room with sponsors or in front of a camera to engage the fans is very important. Ricciardo/Verstappen as a pair will do better in all aspects on and off the track than either with Kvyat.
China was plain great racing, he got a podium with a car that wasn't really fast enough for it based off that move, it was a great drive. Yeah, Russia was bad but every driver has bad races.
I would bank on this being 98% because Jos is negotiating with Ferrari/Merc/Mclaren and said to Horner in the past two weeks, give us a seat now or we're signing a pre-contract with whichever of those teams was offering the best deal. I think Kvyat is decent and has a decent career ahead of him however top teams wanting to win championships need to secure drivers like Verstappen, if he's not with you he's against you and he's the kind of driver who looks capable of stealing titles from you when he's with a different team.
I also think Kvyat being Russian plays against him in a worldwide fan, team appeal sense. Russians speaking english sound very, un-natural, almost uncomfortable. Verstappen sounds far more relaxed and clear speaking English. Ricciardo is loved by fans everywhere, as much as winning and speed on track is important, ability to do well in a room with sponsors or in front of a camera to engage the fans is very important. Ricciardo/Verstappen as a pair will do better in all aspects on and off the track than either with Kvyat.
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Soldato
To me it was an opportunity that was pounced on as Verstappen was wanted in the main team. Kyvat gifted the team what they wanted.
Soldato
What issues did Kvyat cause in China? He did nothing wrong at T1 and went on to get the team a podium.
It's the responsibility of the overtaking car to leave room, you don't force drivers in off the track, into walls or into other drivers.
Not sure how he got away with it in China, they were both lucky.
Soldato
Keep in mind Kyvat might never have made it to F1 without Red Bull's backing. Their young driver programme is easily the most extensive in F1 and I can't recall anything coming close to it across motorsport, especially in these times of needing to finance your own drives.
While they are harsh with their drivers they do back them for years beforehand in most cases (obviously Verstappen is an exception). I'm sure the drivers and their parents/managers know by now how Red Bull work and what they're letting themselves in for and chose to sign up anyway.
As I said earlier I'm surprised Kyvat was demoted to Toro Rosso and not just kicked out of F1, as given their previous form that's what we'd come to expect, so in one sense he's got off lightly and Red Bull clearly want to keep him in their stable for now. As you said, this is as much about securing Verstappen as it is Kyvat's performances.