Kvyat

this_is_gav · 6 May 2016 at 13:35

Vettel came out after China and said words to the effect of the 'incident wasn't as bad as I thought' (I can't remember if he apologised publicly), but I could see where he was coming from at the time, and yes I'm sure much of his reaction would have been because the Ferrari's collided. Still, even Brundle said it looked "much tighter" IIRC when viewed from onboard Vettel's car.

China I can still see both sides of the argument - if Vettel hadn't jumped out of the way he and Kyvat would have likely collided, hitting Raikkonen anyway, as Kyvat couldn't hold the car on the apex. But then if you see a gap in F1 you tend to go for it, and it yielded a podium as a result.

El_Watcher · 6 May 2016 at 13:57

ebilcake said:
He kept his line? he stole the line from Vettel leaving nowhere else for Vettel to go.

Err, what?

Where on either of these two images of the overtaking move is Kvyat anywhere near Vettel, or even "his line"?

Raikkonen went very wide, and cut back in sharply. Vettel went a bit wide and was pinched by Raikkonen. Kvyat drove into the huge gap left by the others going wide. Vettel got surprised by a car on his inside, when he was obviously concentrating on what Raikkonen was doing, and then twitched across too much and hit Kimi.

ebilcake · 6 May 2016 at 16:34

El_Watcher said:
"snip".

Cherry picked stills don't tell the whole story, just let it go.

He's been demoted.

englishpremier · 6 May 2016 at 17:07

Kvyat is about on a par as Magnussen in terms of talent. Neither of them look like anything special, unlike Max and Carlos. At least how I see it anyway. Had he finished this season at Red Bull perhaps he could have moved on to a midfield team, but now that he's been demoted I can't seem many that would want him.

holdin09 · 6 May 2016 at 21:00

I feel sorry for kvyat but this was totally to stop max going else where. I must be the only one on here who likes max and he has the world at his feet. He reminds me of a young Hamilton who can pull of a overtake when needed.

Overlag · 6 May 2016 at 22:57

ebilcake said:
He kept his line? he stole the line from Vettel leaving nowhere else for Vettel to go.

It was dangerous, it's fine so long as your opponent has room and enough time to avoid contact.

Neither of which Vettel had, he got away with it in China and he didn't in Russia.

Looking forward to saying Max driving for Redbull in Spain.

Vettel was in the middle, Kimi wide and Kvyat on the inside. Sure 3 into 1 doesn't go but the main person to blame here really would be Kimi trying to sweep back into the apex with TWO cars on his inside.

ebilcake said:
Cherry picked stills don't tell the whole story, just let it go.

He's been demoted.

You need to watch the replay again.

Twirlywoos · 7 May 2016 at 01:10

holdin09 said:
I feel sorry for kvyat but this was totally to stop max going else where. I must be the only one on here who likes max and he has the world at his feet. He reminds me of a young Hamilton who can pull of a overtake when needed.

How does the rbr junior driver programme work? Are they under contract with Toro Rosso that if they perform well then they have to spend atleast 5 years with rbr?

MissChief · 7 May 2016 at 02:37

Twirlywoos said:
How does the rbr junior driver programme work? Are they under contract with Toro Rosso that if they perform well then they have to spend atleast 5 years with rbr?

The drivers are contracted with Red Bull directly and are assigned to each team AFAIK so RB haven't done anything against either drivers contract. I doubt there's much Kyvat can do about it and it will be interesting to see if he knuckles down and proceeds to soundly beat Sainz Jr and maybe even Max at the odd race or proceeds to throw his toys out of the pram in a proper strop and gets the boot completely come the end of the season.

Twirlywoos · 9 May 2016 at 00:31

Drivers press conference will be interesting if Max and Daniel are dragged on

muon · 9 May 2016 at 01:12

The form thing is complete BS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Formula_One_season#World_Drivers.27_Championship_standings

He had a 7th and a podium finish before Russia.

As others have mentioned, it is all about keeping Verstappen sweet and they have given up on Kvyat after only 3 races. He finished ahead of Ricciardo last season, if that isn't "showing potential" I don't know what is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Formula_One_season#World_Drivers.27_Championship_standings

holdin09 said:
I feel sorry for kvyat but this was totally to stop max going else where. I must be the only one on here who likes max and he has the world at his feet. He reminds me of a young Hamilton who can pull of a overtake when needed.

Why not just promise Verstappen the seat at the end of the season. Who knows, Kvyat might end up doing far better than Ricciardo. He'd at least get a fighting chance.

The_Abyss · 9 May 2016 at 06:21

Because contracts and promises are more porous than a sponge in F1. Driving the car is a little more watertight.

MooMoo444 · 9 May 2016 at 09:47

muon said:
Why not just promise Verstappen the seat at the end of the season. Who knows, Kvyat might end up doing far better than Ricciardo. He'd at least get a fighting chance.

Because between now and the end of the season, Mercedes or Ferrari could swoop in and offer him a megadeal. Rosberg will be out of contract, Kimi too only had a one year extension for 2016, so both teams could be looking for new talent if they don't opt to keep the drivers. Max being at Red Bull means he is less likely to be tempted.

Vish Petrol · 9 May 2016 at 09:59

MooMoo444 said:
Because between now and the end of the season, Mercedes or Ferrari could swoop in and offer him a megadeal. Rosberg will be out of contract, Kimi too only had a one year extension for 2016, so both teams could be looking for new talent if they don't opt to keep the drivers. Max being at Red Bull means he is less likely to be tempted.

If Rosberg takes the title, I doubt he will be out of a contract for long...

Kris_90 · 9 May 2016 at 12:27

Max vs Ricciardo should be a good fight

muon · 9 May 2016 at 19:49

MooMoo444 said:
Because between now and the end of the season, Mercedes or Ferrari could swoop in and offer him a megadeal. Rosberg will be out of contract, Kimi too only had a one year extension for 2016, so both teams could be looking for new talent if they don't opt to keep the drivers. Max being at Red Bull means he is less likely to be tempted.

How is that any different to now?

He could still get offered a megadeal.

MooMoo444 · 9 May 2016 at 21:44

Less likely to be tempted when he is already in a top team

drunkenmaster · 9 May 2016 at 22:09

muon said:
How is that any different to now?

He could still get offered a megadeal.

Who says he can, people are nuts when they talk about contracts being worthless or assuming they are very basic without a range of clauses or ways to lock in a driver. A good deal means someone has to be bought out or if BOTH parties want to break a contract that is fine. If one does and the other doesn't, you're screwed.

My guess would be this, Verstappen had a range of offers on the table a couple years back, he negotiated hard because everyone wanted him and thus he can take one offer and go and use it to get a better deal with another team.

His father is driven and smart and knows being locked into a losing car for years stops your career before it starts. I'd bet big money that Verstappen had options to leave, something for instance like if a top 3 constructor team offered him a contract he was able to leave for a set fee and likely fairly low and changing depending on how far into his contract he was. So if Merc offer RBR 3mil he can leave his contract early and go drive for them.

RBR are also not stupid, they likely had a clause such as if Merc made such an offer they had the option to for instance offer him a drive in the RBR and if they do so he can't turn it down. For Max that means he either gets to leave for a top team or get a seat in the main team, he doesn't lose out either way. RBR don't lose either, they either don't want him and make some cash or they decide he's worth it and have a way to prevent him leaving. In this scenario there is probably some situation where if he gets moved to the main team it's an automatic 3 year contract on a bit more money but with far less clauses allowing him to move. IE taking the main seat means he's relatively locked into RBR, to the point that Merc could offer him a 20mil a year deal and RBR can tell them to **** off.

drunkenmaster · 10 May 2016 at 21:30

Reading today it sounds like Verstappens contract was 3 years, 2 years in TR and either gets bumped to RBR for 3rd year or he can choose to join another team, stay at TR or whatever really if he wasn't offered the RBR seat. So slightly more complex clauses than people think. Also Jos has apparently said with the move he's signed a new contract to 2019(end of I think), the original deal meant RBR could basically force him to go for a year to RBR but wouldn't be able to guarantee longer. So RBR say we can lock you in for next year, you can't sign with Merc/Ferrari till 2018 but if you sign a new longer term contract we'll give you the RBR seat today.

They used the seat now as a sweetener to get him to stay beyond 2017 with the team basically.

ebilcake · 16 May 2016 at 09:42

Kris_90 said:
Max vs Ricciardo should be a good fight

1 - 0 to Max it seems.

Although not Ricciardo's fault to be fair, he was screwed over.

megakid · 20 May 2016 at 15:22

From speaking to someone who used to work at Toro Rosso and still has connections there, apparently Max's race engineer and another engineer got rather publicly (in the office) sacked after Max got pulled up to Red Bull. They were seen to be being disingenuous towards the team (putting Max's success above the team) with a view to follow Max as Rocky has done with Vettel (he was Vettel's Torro Rosso engineer when he won his first race and is still with him at Ferrari).