Kyle Rittenhouse - teen who shot three people in Kenosha

Minor point but Kyle isn't doing himself favours agreeing with the prosecutor's assertions of "need" - he could simply answer that things are useful... Like his rifle was useful, he didn't think he would be attacked but that it would be useful to have IF he was. Likewise being separated from the former infantry guy (?) prosecutor asserts Kyle felt he needed the presence of that guy when Kyle could have said now, he just felt it useful.

You know the crowd isn't friendly etc.. he could point out that some of the crowd weren't friendly. also shouting out "friendly friendly friendly" again he doesn't need to agree he knew the crowd wasn't friendly but that there was a chance etc... prosecutor is trying to claim he knew he'd get this unfriendly reaction.

Bit of a leap, he didn't know he'd get surprised by the guy with the gun + the mental guy.
 
Jono8 said:
Perfectly plausibly if your intention is to disarm someone with a rifle who you perceive to be a threat and who you think might be going around shooting people. I would argue attempting to remove the long range weapon from someone who you perceive to be a threat is possibly a good option if you are in an open area and have no immediate cover or place to take shelter.

Are you suggesting that in every possible situation that you feel your life is threatened by a person with a weapon, that you should attempt to hide/take shelter?
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I shouldn't engage a bad faith actor but i will bite

In well over 90% of situations running away/hiding from an armed suspect is a far better option than approaching them or in this case literally chasing them down the street.
Firstly, the further away a target is the harder it is to hit them. By approaching an armed person you are making yourself a physically bigger target and therefore an easier target to hit. Your chances of getting hit goes up the closer you get to the target.

Secondly this is real life not a film or those self defence videos on youtube, disarming a person will most likely ends with them discharging the weapon if their finger is on the trigger. Since you are a bigger target because you decided to approach them and they are probably pointing the gun in your direction, you will most likely get hit.

Thirdly, you are not an anime character you are not going to travel 10 metres in the blink of an eye or teleport behind them and the naruto run only looks cool on TV it won't help you dodge bullets. If you approach someone who is intending on shooting you, they will most likely shoot you and kill you before you even get close to the gun.

The idea that you should chase someone down with a gun to disarm is a fantasy.


But here is the funny part. If you are chasing someone to disarm them, they (the armed person) are running away from you and you are following them. If they intend on shooting you, they wouldn't be running away, but lets say your fantasy play out and they happen to be running away, they would turn at the right moment and empty a mag into your dumbass.
 
dowie said:
Minor point but Kyle isn't doing himself favours agreeing with the prosecutor's assertions of "need" - he could simply answer that things are useful... Like his rifle was useful, he didn't think he would be attacked but that it would be useful to have IF he was. Likewise being separated from the former infantry guy (?) prosecutor asserts Kyle felt he needed the presence of that guy when Kyle could have said now, he just felt it useful.

You know the crowd isn't friendly etc.. he could point out that some of the crowd weren't friendly. also shouting out "friendly friendly friendly" again he doesn't need to agree he knew the crowd wasn't friendly but that there was a chance etc... prosecutor is trying to claim he knew he'd get this unfriendly reaction.

Bit of a leap, he didn't know he'd get surprised by the guy with the gun + the mental guy.
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The judge stepped in as Kyle has answered it.
 
Jono8 said:
There is no bad faith. I'm just interested to hear so many in this thread saying how stupid an idea it is to try and disarm someone who you might perceive as a threat.

Its quite eye opening.
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There is a difference between disarming someone right in front of you, and chasing after them.

Bazzards said:
A threat with an assault rifle........
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Just a rifle. You may think that's pedantic, but it's not an assault rifle, it's a rifle.
 
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Did the defence attorney just try to refer to "algorithms" as "logarithms"? :D Or was that just his accent?

He's complaining about apple tablets and some claim they enhance/add to the footage when using pinch to zoom.
 
dowie said:
Did the defence attorney just try to refer to "algorithms" as "logarithms"? :D Or was that just his accent?

He's complaining about apple tablets and some claim they enhance/add to the footage when using pinch to zoom.
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I think the judge and most people got the jist of what he was saying, but it was full of americanisms and digital ignorance.
 
Jono8 said:
There is no bad faith. I'm just interested to hear so many in this thread saying how stupid an idea it is to try and disarm someone who you might perceive as a threat.

Its quite eye opening.
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Well before you go chasing down any would be shooters i would recommend you buy one of these. Link

I heard they are really good at deflecting bullets and cutting them in half. Let me know how it goes.
 
Jono8 said:
There is no bad faith. I'm just interested to hear so many in this thread saying how stupid an idea it is to try and disarm someone who you might perceive as a threat.

Its quite eye opening.
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What's eye opening is that you think any sane person should be trying to disarm someone who is carrying a gun of any description. You know John Wick isn't a documentary right? That's literally the only conclusion I can come to, that you've watched far to many movies and think it's possible. Either that or you are just a low level troll because some of what you are typing is utter insanity.
 
Jono8 said:
There is no bad faith. I'm just interested to hear so many in this thread saying how stupid an idea it is to try and disarm someone who you might perceive as a threat.
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No one has said that though - you're just being disingenuous... again. You've turned more specific claims into some general vague one... the sort of general vague argument you seem to love.

Chasing after someone who is fleeing/running away towards police with an assault rifle, not actively presenting a threat to anyone, as part of a mob screaming about "cranium" him etc.. seems like a very stupid idea.
 
dowie said:
No one has said that though - you're just being disingenuous... again. You've turned more specific claims into some general vague one... the sort of general vague argument you seem to love.

Chasing after someone who is fleeing/running away towards police with an assault rifle, not actively presenting a threat to anyone, as part of a mob screaming about "cranium" him etc.. seems like a very stupid idea.
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Why are you assuming that everyone knew he was "fleeing/running away"? What if he was getting to a better vantage point? Did Kyle tell them he was surrendering and going to the police? Did he holed his arms up whilst moving away to try and indicate he was of no threat.

You are all just assuming that everyone there immediately thought "oh, he must have just shot that guy in self defense/by accident and now he is most certainly just being a nice old chap and running away to turn himself over to the police. Let us just let him be on his merry way".

I think it indicates that a lot of you are not really thinking in depth about the possible thought process of people who find themselves in a situation such as this.
 
Jono8 said:
Why are you assuming that everyone knew he was "fleeing/running away"? What if he was getting to a better vantage point? Did Kyle tell them he was surrendering and going to the police? Did he holed his arms up whilst moving away to try and indicate he was of no threat.

You are all just assuming that everyone there immediately thought "oh, he must have just shot that guy in self defense/by accident and now he is most certainly just being a nice old chap and running away to turn himself over to the police. Let us just let him be on his merry way".

I think it indicates that a lot of you are not really thinking in depth about the possible thought process of people who find themselves in a situation such as this.
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It is fairly obvious if you watch the videos that his attitude was of not presenting a threat.

I'm still at a loss as to why he got separated from the group he was with originally and decided to wander around alone amongst an unfriendly crowd - doesn't seem like he was on his way out the area, etc. not sure if spectacularly naive or looking for trouble.
 
Jono8 said:
Why are you assuming that everyone knew he was "fleeing/running away"? What if he was getting to a better vantage point?

I think it indicates that a lot of you are not really thinking in depth about the possible thought process of people who find themselves in a situation such as this.
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whataboutery
/ˌwɒtəˈbaʊtəri/

noun
BRITISH
noun: whataboutery; plural noun: whatabouteries
  1. the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.
    "all too often, well-intentioned debate descends into whataboutery"
    "Why are you assuming that everyone knew he was "fleeing/running away"? What if he was getting to a better vantage point? Did Kyle tell them he was surrendering and going to the police? Did he holed his arms up whilst moving away to try and indicate he was of no threat."
 
Rroff said:
It is fairly obvious if you watch the videos that his attitude was of not presenting a threat.
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Personally i dont think much is that obvious from the fairly poor quality footage that is available. Certainly not enough to represent how things could be perceived on the ground by people actually there.
 
Jono8 said:
Why are you assuming that everyone knew he was "fleeing/running away"?
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Yet again I'm left wondering if you've watched any of the videos...

Jono8 said:
What if he was getting to a better vantage point?
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A better vantage point from where exactly - do you see any hills etc..? He's running down a flat road, along the path the road is taking... towards police.

Jono8 said:
You are all just assuming that everyone there immediately thought "oh, he must have just shot that guy in self defense/by accident and now he is most certainly just being a nice old chap and running away to turn himself over to the police. Let us just let him be on his merry way".
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No that isn't what I'm necessarily assuming everyone though, it's a pretty obvious conclusion and one that some might have (correctly) drawn but you're just making up quotes. I'm pointing out that he's fleeing/running in that direction... the main point being that he's running away/fleeing.

Jono8 said:
I think it indicates that a lot of you are not really thinking in depth about the possible thought process of people who find themselves in a situation such as this.
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More like you're clutching at straws here.
 
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