Kyle Rittenhouse - teen who shot three people in Kenosha

[Energize]

I've totally lost track of the timing of events, is this half baked video the prosecution want to show of him supposedly pointing the weapon before or after Rosenbaum threatened to kill him?

Because even if I did believe that video shows what the prosecution claim, I'm not sure I could considering it provocation given the overall situation that night.

 

[kindai]

You only have to watch the video to see he had various avenues to still keep running in.

Lol what videos were you watching, there was a mob all around the other side of the trucks where he finally turned around, it was only AFTER the shots were fired the mob dispersed and he had places to run.

 

[deuse]

You only have to watch the video to see he had various avenues to still keep running in.

Rosenbaum only caught up/got that close because Kyle stopped and turned When someone stops and turns with someone chasing them, generally the person chasing them gets closer...

The legal point is that no one should be chasing him.
Let alone with a gun drawn and trying to kill Kyle in a sneaky way.

I bet he turned around like most would do, to see if they was still coming.
The rioters caused all this.

 

[Jono8]

Lol what videos were you watching, there was a mob all around the other side of the trucks where he finally turned around, it was only AFTER the shots were fired the mob dispersed and he had places to run.

Had that "mob" declared they wanted to kill him/acting hostile towards him as well or something? Were they aware of what was happening between Rosenbaum and Kyle?

 

[C Kent]

At least continue running for starters. He ran for what, 10 meters? Then just seemed to give up, turn around and kill him. The instructions specifically say "There is no duty to retreat. However in determining whether the defendant reasonably believed the amount of force used was necessary to prevent or terminate interference, you may consider whether the defendant had the opportunity to retreat with safety, whether such retreat was feasible, and whether the defendant knew of the opportunity to retreat". One could could quite easily argue (and the prosecution did), that he still had ample opportunity to keep running/retreating.

The lunge/leap from Rosenbaum after Kyle turned and aimed his rifle at him seconds before shooting him dead could have been for a number of reasons. Quite likely he could have been trying to get out of the way/push the barrel away so he didn't get shot.

So he was trying to get out of the way the 2nd time he had a weapon pointed at him? Why did he not do that the 1st time? Why did he not slow down the 1st time? Everything Rittenhouse was doing seemed to enrage Rosenbaum more. oh come on, he had been chased for further than 10 yards and the gap was getting shorter between the 2, and nothing was deterring Rosenbaum from stopping. How much further do you think it would have been acceptable for Rittenhouse to continue to retreat?

I see you've finally given up on the silly misconception that Rosenbaum was acting in self defence, thankfully.

 

[Jono8]

So he was trying to get out of the way the 2nd time he had a weapon pointed at him? Why did he not do that the 1st time? Why did he not slow down the 1st time? Everything Rittenhouse was doing seemed to enrage Rosenbaum more. oh come on, he had been chased for further than 10 yards and the gap was getting shorter between the 2, and nothing was deterring Rosenbaum from stopping. How much further do you think it would have been acceptable for Rittenhouse to continue to retreat?

So what, you run for a bit and then just give up and immediately resort to deadly force? That isn't reasonable in my opinion.

I see you've finally given up on the silly misconception that Rosenbaum was acting in self defence, thankfully.

I haven't said that. If it is true that he was provoked before the chasing by Kyle pointing his weapon at him, then its conceivable he was trying to disarm him so he no longer felt threatened.

 

[deuse]

That clearly isn't the case. Its quite obviously a genuine mistake/oversight somewhere along the line because they are all obviously technologically inept.

Do bear in mind that any defense team will likely go for a mistrial at any opportunity and i've read that in almost all cases like this, there will be mistrial motions from the defense.

Again. The judge agreed and will look in to it today.

 

[Jono8]

The legal point is that no one should be chasing him.

No it isn't. You cant just automatically shoot someone dead because they are chasing you.

 

[deuse]

I haven't said that. If it is true that he was provoked before the chasing by Kyle pointing his weapon at him, then its conceivable he was trying to disarm him so he no longer felt threatened.

Haven't you seen the video?
God knows what you was watching.

 

[crazyDAJT]

Yup, the prosecution argument relies on some very weak claim of provocation based on some blurry footage/stills etc.. (with some enhancement etc..) to claim that those bunch of pixes show him pointing a rifle first.

IF the jury are following the instructions then how can they really conclude anything beyond reasonable doubt re: the provocation claim? And IF they can't do that then the argument against self-defence is blown, he clearly retreated and the attack was unprovoked.

I don’t believe they have asked for the drone video and picture that is trying to say he pointed his firearm first.

if this is the case the jurors probably don’t buy the provocative argument (that was thrown in last minute by the state). Instead they are probably trying to evaluate if the force used was appropriate to the threat in each case.

 

[kindai]

Had that "mob" declared they wanted to kill him/acting hostile towards him as well or something? Were they aware of what was happening between Rosenbaum and Kyle?

Given the "mob" mentality that Kyle would have witnessed through the night, how could he be sure that they wouldnt of grabbed hold of him and beaten him senseless or worse?

then its conceivable he was trying to disarm him so he no longer felt threatened.

What on earth is your logic behind this? Because its absolute absurd to think someone who was an active aggressor was doing so to "disarm" someone.

 

[dowie]

There is absolutely a good argument to be made for why deadly force was not necessarily reasonable in this situation.

Make it then... what's the argument?

You often make assertions then have nothing to back them up with. He'd already tried pointing a weapon at Rosenbaum mid-chase and that didn't stop him he had seconds to react, the guy had grabbed his rifle what is the argument for shooting not being reasonable in that situation?

Then sure, enough, into deflection mode we go:

Also, what are you on about with no making arguments/backing anything up?[...].

IF there is absolutely a good argument to make there then just make it, you repeatedly make assertions about this case then when questioned you avoid/deflect etc.. as you've just done yet again.

So what, you run for a bit and then just give up and immediately resort to deadly force? That isn't reasonable in my opinion.

Why isn't it reasonable though? You're just making an assertion again without an argument. From Kyle's POV the guy has threatened to kill him, has caught up with him, pointing the rifle at him didn't work, he's and lunged/grabbed the gun... what should he have done instead? Why is it not reasonable to shoot at that point?

 

[deuse]

No it isn't. You cant just automatically shoot someone dead because they are chasing you.

Yes you can. In the US
In Florida. If you do a protest across a junction.
I can just run you over.

 

[Jono8]

Instead they are probably trying to evaluate if the force used was appropriate to the threat in each case.

I imagine that this is what the ions share of the deliberations will be about, because it is the main thing in question ultimately.

 

[Roar87]

Dubious in your opinion. There was clearly ample room for Kyle to keep running in various directions. Rosenbaum only catches up to him because Kyle chose to stop, turn and kill him, and even then Rosenbaum was still a decent way away from him (he had to lunge/leap to even come close to touching the barrel of Kyle's weapon, IF he even touched it at all)

Also, nothing is clear cut when it comes to whether the force he used was reasonable. There is absolutely a good argument to be made for why deadly force was not necessarily reasonable in this situation.

He should've just kept running from the angry paedophile trying to attack him, how dare he defend himself, the angry paedophile would've still been alive if Kyle kept running from his attempts to assault him, take his gun, and potentially murder him

 

[Jono8]

Then sure, enough, into deflection mode we go:



IF there is absolutely a good argument to make there then just make it, you repeatedly make assertions about this case then when questioned you avoid/deflect etc.. as you've just done yet again.

I'm not avoiding or deflecting anything. Ive already pointed out countless times arguments made by the prosecution that i agree with/think are good points (which will be the reasons for my opinion).

I think you have some sort of issue with understanding inference, which makes it very difficult to have any sort of reasonable debate.

You also seem to have this presumption that you are 100% correct and that YOU are a reasonable person. What if you are not? What if i am not? What if you deem me not to be, because you are not?

The argument over what a reasonable person would do or what could be deemed a reasonable act is very much personal/an opinion and is why this case is so divisive.

 

[Jono8]

He should've just kept running from the angry paedophile trying to attack him, how dare he defend himself, the angry paedophile would've still been alive if Kyle kept running from his attempts to assault him, take his gun, and potentially murder him

A. Kyle did not know his criminal history so its irrelevant
B. The force to which Rosenbaum may have "assaulted" Kyle, whether he wanted to take his gun and whether he was going to murder him is entirely conjecture.

The only "fact" and provable action that Rosenbaum took, was to chase him.

 

[C Kent]

So what, you run for a bit and then just give up and immediately resort to deadly force? That isn't reasonable in my opinion.

.

So how much further should he have retreated considering nothing was deterring rosenbaum? 10 more meters, 20, 100? just carried on until he was caught and had the snot kicked out of him or potentially lost his life? What's reasonable in your opinion?

 

[Caracus2k]

The force to which Rosenbaum may have "assaulted" Kyle, whether he wanted to take his gun and whether he was going to murder him is entirely conjecture.

The only "fact" and provable action that Rosenbaum took, was to chase him.

After he had previously threatened to kill him... and seemed intent on goading someone to shoot him

"I catch any of you guys alone tonight, I'm going to ****ing kill you"

And look what happened when Kyle did find himself isolated.

 

[Skunkworks]

Rosenbaum asked for, literally, several times!

 

[Roar87]

After he had previously threatened to kill him... and seemed intent on goading someone to shoot him

"I catch any of you guys alone tonight, I'm going to ****ing kill you"

And look what happened when Kyle did find himself isolated.

Imagine defending this piece of **** man, he's literally using the N word constantly and Democrats are preparing to riot in his defence without a hint of irony

 

[Jono8]

Imagine defending this piece of **** man, he's literally using the N word constantly and Democrats are preparing to riot in his defence without a hint of irony

Who is defending him? He was obviously a horrible person.

That isn't relevant to the case though.