Language Tutors

[Lopéz]

And this is the problem with doing stuff like going to conversation groups - they are great (as is iTalki) when you have a half decent vocabulary and are getting to grips with forming sentences and listening to replies, but if you're at real beginner level it's really hard work, you just sit there sweating bullets realising you've no idea how to express yourself.

I did an iTalki session in May and it was like trying to run through the sea, I just had no idea how to say what I wanted to say and it made my realise my level was nowhere near where I thought it was. 6 months of classes down the line and now it would be far more useful.

You need to be really honest with yourself about your current level.

 

[dod]

The downside is it isn't cheap (€500 per module means I'm €1500 invested so far) and it eats 5-7 hours a week in classes and homework.

Lots of the stuff mentioned above (informal conversation sessions, apps, YouTube, TV) is by no means useless but based on what I've seen in myself and others it is no substitute for actually being taught the language.

Totally agree. I'm planning retiring to Spain in the next year or so and wanted to begin learning the language . I tried a number of apps but they really didn't do much for me.

What I ended up doing was looking round the various facebook "move to Spain" groups and finding an online tutor who had apparently a good reputation. It's worked out reasonably well. Only about two months in, a one hour session per week, but actually getting to a stage where I can have very basic conversations. Biggest issue for me is the amount of practice time I can dedicate to it (learning vocabulary) and not continually being immersed in it. I've a couple of mates out there already, one for 4 years, one for 20 who both say it's easier when you're actually using the language for real.

 

[Mr Jack]

I did German in school for 2 years and considered myself able to speak German

I failed German miserably at GCSE. Ironic really.

I also started watching Netflix in German with English subtitles or in English with German subtitles.

You have to watch it with no English to get the most benefit from it. Preferably, IMO, with no subtitles either. Make yourself understand the spoken German.

The downside is it isn't cheap (€500 per module means I'm €1500 invested so far) and it eats 5-7 hours a week in classes and homework.

Lots of the stuff mentioned above (informal conversation sessions, apps, YouTube, TV) is by no means useless but based on what I've seen in myself and others it is no substitute for actually being taught the language.

I think courses are quite variable. Most of the in-person German tuition I've had - including that I got here in Germany - was pretty useless, and the best of it was merely poor. What you need is the full immersion, German (or French or whatever) only courses, but a lot of courses don't work like that and they spend a lot of time on fussing over errors rather than concentrating on understanding and being understood. The thing that really got my German up to usable (passed B1) was doing the DW online German Course (Nico's Weg) and watching German language TV and series. But you have to put the hours in - an hour a day is about the right point, IME.

 

[Lopéz]

Yeah Nico's Weg is good, as is Easy German on YouTube.

Shame the tuition you've had was poor - I'm lucky that I've stumbled on a really good school here in Vienna and I honestly can't fault the teachers.

The emphasis on the place I'm going is firmly on speaking/understanding/being understood and it's full immersion, everything is in German including all the administration, comms from the school etc - the vast majority of the course is us speaking with the teacher, which was awful at first but once you get some foundation it's much better.

 

[jakedude182]

Hi I've used conversation exchange websites for free before and had some success with Spanish.
Spoke to some people in Indonesia, Mexico and other places on Skype and they were all trying to learn English and loved hearing a real English accent. It was some teaching aka random chit chat to help correct them.
Once listed as a person looking to learn I got loads of emails from users looking to learn.

I also highly recommend pimsleur language program where you listen and talk out loud and respond. When walking for half an hour somewhere they are amazing.

 

[Narj]

Cheers all,

Going to pick through a few of these options. I think I'll sort out my vocabulary and grammar before joining a speaking group though.

I agree that Duolingo just seems a bit too scattergun and not that great (if anything it's too simple/easy so far). I've started reading lemonde.fr every day and am trying to translate as much as possible which is great for picking up new useful vocabulary. Listening to French talk radio stations was something that helped last time around when I was over there (oh god, the local dating adverts being read out were hilarious!) so maybe I can find something similar online.

Not the first time I've heard Pimsleur recommended - I seem to remember the Michel Thomas Method being highly regarded but I don't know anyone that's done it (opinions seem mixed these days).

 

[Cern]

Cheers all,

Going to pick through a few of these options. I think I'll sort out my vocabulary and grammar before joining a speaking group though.

I agree that Duolingo just seems a bit too scattergun and not that great (if anything it's too simple/easy so far). I've started reading lemonde.fr every day and am trying to translate as much as possible which is great for picking up new useful vocabulary. Listening to French talk radio stations was something that helped last time around when I was over there (oh god, the local dating adverts being read out were hilarious!) so maybe I can find something similar online.

Not the first time I've heard Pimsleur recommended - I seem to remember the Michel Thomas Method being highly regarded but I don't know anyone that's done it (opinions seem mixed these days).

How did you get on with this? What tuition method did you choose in the end?

In the past I've used the Michel Thomas CD courses. I like his method for learning vocab and phrases, but it's not so good for developing conversational French because it's a repeat and respond method. More recently I worked through the Paul Noble audiobooks (Beginners and Intermediate French). His method is essentially a reworking of the Michel Thomas method. Which is fine, it's a good course, but it has the same problems.

I've recently tried to get re-started with my French learning by bashing out some daily lessons on Duolingo. But it's pretty rubbish (I wasn't under any illusions). The AI / text-to-speech voices are terrible, there's errors in lessons and a lot of the explanations are really poor. It was a fun way to get going again, but it's time to step things up.

Can anyone recommend a good app or course for learning French that isn't so gamified as Duolingo or as 'repeat after me' as Michel Thomas / Paul Noble? Something that is good for everyday conversational French, at a low intermediate level? I don't mind paying a reasonable subscription or purchase price, but it needs to be something that will engage me enough to take me to the next level so I can finally feel brave enough to jump in there and engage in some real conversations. So, preferably something that focuses on genuine spoken French (this is my weakness, I can read French fairly well) and doesn't rely on AI voices.

 

[BowdonUK]

There are courses on youtube for free. Just type in learning French

 

[D.P.]

How did you get on with this? What tuition method did you choose in the end?

In the past I've used the Michel Thomas CD courses. I like his method for learning vocab and phrases, but it's not so good for developing conversational French because it's a repeat and respond method. More recently I worked through the Paul Noble audiobooks (Beginners and Intermediate French). His method is essentially a reworking of the Michel Thomas method. Which is fine, it's a good course, but it has the same problems.

I've recently tried to get re-started with my French learning by bashing out some daily lessons on Duolingo. But it's pretty rubbish (I wasn't under any illusions). The AI / text-to-speech voices are terrible, there's errors in lessons and a lot of the explanations are really poor. It was a fun way to get going again, but it's time to step things up.

Can anyone recommend a good app or course for learning French that isn't so gamified as Duolingo or as 'repeat after me' as Michel Thomas / Paul Noble? Something that is good for everyday conversational French, at a low intermediate level? I don't mind paying a reasonable subscription or purchase price, but it needs to be something that will engage me enough to take me to the next level so I can finally feel brave enough to jump in there and engage in some real conversations. So, preferably something that focuses on genuine spoken French (this is my weakness, I can read French fairly well) and doesn't rely on AI voices.

Busuu is ok

 

[Martynt74]

I did German in school for 2 years and considered myself able to speak German -

I was discussing this with my wife the other day. It's funny how English people are proud of being able to say a few words/phrases in a language and will say "i can speak a little xyz", but then we're here in Spain and you ask someone if they can speak English and they say no, then proceed to speak far better English than we can their language. Yet they say no because they're not fluent.

Same with European colleagues, they always apologise for their English, then belt out conversations which are 80% perfect. It's a huge difference.


The bit i struggle with the most is generally my knowledge of proper English isn't great, so that doesn't translate well to classroom lessons where they speak of conjugating verbs etc. I wouldn't know what that is in English!

 

[Lopéz]

The bit i struggle with the most is generally my knowledge of proper English isn't great, so that doesn't translate well to classroom lessons where they speak of conjugating verbs etc. I wouldn't know what that is in English!

This was, and still is, an issue for me with learning German. I spend more time learning what grammatical terms mean than actually learning the language some weeks.

 

[Mr Jack]

Same with European colleagues, they always apologise for their English, then belt out conversations which are 80% perfect. It's a huge difference.

The doctor I go to for my ADHD is like this. Talks to me about complex medical topics in near perfect English while moaning about his lack of skill and complaining he's better at Spanish and French.

 

[AndyCr15]

Busuu is ok

Yeah, I quite liked Busuu, the community aspect was quite clever. In the end I bought Lifetime subs to Babbel and Rosetta Stone though. (You can often get either for around £160)

I did some italki lessons, but in some ways I think I was annoyed that the tutor wanted to go over very basic vocab when I was almost a year or so into learning and was more excited by learning different tenses etc.

Music in your chosen language seems a good idea to me too. I have a Spanish playlist and it's fun when you start to understand some of what they're singing about. Watching TV in your chosen language seems good too, as mentioned already.

I think I've been learning for about 18-20 months now and I travel to Spain as much as I can (I love cycling there, which helps) and love the challenge of speaking with someone who doesn't speak English. I can now generally muddle my way through discussions although when they speak too fast, I'm still rather lost...

 

[Narj]

How did you get on with this? What tuition method did you choose in the end?

If I'm honest, a bit crap. I'm also stupidly busy work-wise and haven't had an opportunity to go back to France to practice.

However I have found some amazing youtubers who are great at filling in the grammar holes and who are great for listening practice. Obviously speaking is a different thing and I still have to sort that out.

There's also a website I really like for revealing idioms and nice little nuggets of grammar: https://www.lawlessfrench.com/ - I also try to read French news websites and am listening to French Radio stations online (usually needs a VPN - Brexit related?).

I am still considering getting a proper tutor once I stop getting hammered with various bills.

I am going back to writing down verb conjugations etc in an exercise book because it's the only way things stick - Duolingo is learning by frustration IMO. Writing things down is like going back to school but there's a reason they make you do that boring stuff. Another thing I like to do is to think how I would say something I just said in French - the thing is that literal translation rarely works and I end up looking things up and learning something new quite often, especially with casual terms. I love the language but it's just as weird as English sometimes with exceptions for certain verbs etc.

Maybe one day I'll git gud. I'm thinking long-term now though and am toying with retiring in Spain or Portugal so might have to branch out. I can survive with Spanish but Portugese is Moon Language.

 

[Cern]

If I'm honest, a bit crap. I'm also stupidly busy work-wise and haven't had an opportunity to go back to France to practice.

However I have found some amazing youtubers who are great at filling in the grammar holes and who are great for listening practice. Obviously speaking is a different thing and I still have to sort that out.

There's also a website I really like for revealing idioms and nice little nuggets of grammar: https://www.lawlessfrench.com/ - I also try to read French news websites and am listening to French Radio stations online (usually needs a VPN - Brexit related?).

I am still considering getting a proper tutor once I stop getting hammered with various bills.

I am going back to writing down verb conjugations etc in an exercise book because it's the only way things stick - Duolingo is learning by frustration IMO. Writing things down is like going back to school but there's a reason they make you do that boring stuff. Another thing I like to do is to think how I would say something I just said in French - the thing is that literal translation rarely works and I end up looking things up and learning something new quite often, especially with casual terms. I love the language but it's just as weird as English sometimes with exceptions for certain verbs etc.

Maybe one day I'll git gud. I'm thinking long-term now though and am toying with retiring in Spain or Portugal so might have to branch out. I can survive with Spanish but Portugese is Moon Language.

I seem to have patchy access to French radio too, especially the live audio streams. The live video streams seem more likely to work, perhaps because some of them go through third parties like You Tube? Or you can use apps that proxy things. As you say, probably Brexit related.

"Duolingo is learning by frustration". Heh, too true. After a month I'm done with it. Going to look at Busuu and try to see how I get on with some French radio, TV and newspapers.

Who are the best French language Youtubers that you've found? Can you link a few of them?

 

[D.P.]

This was, and still is, an issue for me with learning German. I spend more time learning what grammatical terms mean than actually learning the language some weeks.

While not a big problem, learning a foreign language has highlighted how poor British teaching of English actually is compared to how other countries teach their language. I see the french homework my 7 year old is learning and they are all identify indirect preceding objects, demonstrative pronoun agreements, interrogatives.They really just learn all the key grammar explicitly, and then have zero problems identifying and understanding the same grammar concepts when they learn german and English (8 and years years respectively)

 

[McGray]

I'm actually in France now 3 weeks into a 4 week course.

It's been great but even though I'm here, I feel I am still only progressing slowly.

Practice, practice, practice!

 

[dod]

This was, and still is, an issue for me with learning German. I spend more time learning what grammatical terms mean than actually learning the language some weeks.

Same here. We spent this week going through how pronouns are used with prepositions and she absolutely melted our brains. I have huge respect for one Danish girl who is more fluent in English than the rest of us native speakers.

Having said that I'm out in 2 1/2 weeks so will be interesting to see how well classroom spanish transfers to the real world.

 

[Narj]

I seem to have patchy access to French radio too, especially the live audio streams. The live video streams seem more likely to work, perhaps because some of them go through third parties like You Tube? Or you can use apps that proxy things. As you say, probably Brexit related.

"Duolingo is learning by frustration". Heh, too true. After a month I'm done with it. Going to look at Busuu and try to see how I get on with some French radio, TV and newspapers.

Who are the best French language Youtubers that you've found? Can you link a few of them?

A couple of links I'm using at the moment:

Listening - https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceculture (c'est plus difficile pour comprendre les mots dans les chansons françaises. )
Other suggestions here: https://frenchtogether.com/french-radio/ - it's still a bit jarring having songs in English interspersing everything but I see it as a brain break.

Interesting that there's a rule for French stations having to have a significant percentage of French music for cultural preservation reasons. I do wish I could find the local talk station I listened to when at my friend's place but I guess they probably aren't online.

As for youtubers, I like this guy as he speaks really clearly: https://www.youtube.com/@professeurfrancais_guillaume

I really do learn better in a structured manner though so need to pull my thumb out. Totally agree about language in the UK general being taught poorly as I've had to re-educate myself on some of the theory of grammatical constructs and terms and still have to check quite often.

 

[Voltar]

The French institute in South Kensington is well known, they’d probably be able to give you a steer towards something local or online that would work.

If you have a university nearby perhaps see if they have a language centre for private tuition/non students.