Library Day of Action

vonhelmet said:
My wife works in a library, and complains so much about the idiotic management decisions that are made. They have endless middle managers enforcing stupid policies.

Acidhell2... A Lovefilm style business model wouldn't work for books due to cost, unless you could get the books in digital form, but I don't see ebooks taking off in anything like the same way as DVDs and games. Maybe in 10 years.
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So does my dad, and i've heard similar stories. Just goes to show that closing libraries is not the right cure though, i'm sure you understand that being a librarian is not the sort of job that can be done by a volunteer.
 
Superewza said:
So does my dad, and i've heard similar stories. Just goes to show that closing libraries is not the right cure though, i'm sure you understand that being a librarian is not the sort of job that can be done by a volunteer.
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Why can't it be done by a volunteer?

What difference does being employed make to the ability to fulfill the role?
 
Dolph said:
Why can't it be done by a volunteer?

What difference does being employed make to the ability to fulfill the role?
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Have you even read the article linked in the first post? And you mean besides the fact that A, these 'volunteers' don't exist and B, it's a skilled profession, you can't just turn up on a day because you're bored and say 'yeah, i'll have a crack at that, **** easy'.

I'm getting tired of your 'privatize everything' attitude. It's like listening to a broken record. Your theory is that privatizing leads to competition which leads to a better experience for the consumer, correct? Well the reality is rather different to that, isn't it? What it leads to is extortionate prices for the consumer to have to pay for a worse service, while the benefits of said service end up not in the hands of the public, but in the pockets of those who 'own' them.
 
Superewza said:
I'm getting tired of your 'privatize everything' attitude. It's like listening to a broken record. Your theory is that privatizing leads to competition which leads to a better experience for the consumer, correct? Well the reality is rather different to that, isn't it? What it leads to is extortionate prices for the consumer to have to pay for a worse service, while the benefits of said service end up not in the hands of the public, but in the pockets of those who 'own' them.
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That's a bit dramatic...

The question is valid. Could libraries be privatised? I'm not sure. I'd be intrigued to see if anyone attempts to buy up some of the defunct libraries and their stock and run it as a viable business. Monthly membership fee, that sort of thing.
 
Superewza said:
Have you even read the article linked in the first post? And you mean besides the fact that A, these 'volunteers' don't exist and B, it's a skilled profession, you can't just turn up on a day because you're bored and say 'yeah, i'll have a crack at that, **** easy'.
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Librarian is a skilled profession? There are professional qualifications that are required for the role? I think you are dramatically overestimating both the role and the requirements. Librarian is roughly equivalent of supermarket shop floor staff or fast food work in the vast majority of cases.

I'm getting tired of your 'privatize everything' attitude. It's like listening to a broken record. Your theory is that privatizing leads to competition which leads to a better experience for the consumer, correct? Well the reality is rather different to that, isn't it? What it leads to is extortionate prices for the consumer to have to pay for a worse service, while the benefits of said service end up not in the hands of the public, but in the pockets of those who 'own' them.
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And your habit of asking loaded questions, making random assumptions and ignoring the reality of every attempted implementation of your preferred approach to government is pretty tiring too.

FWIW, I haven't stated at any point the libraries should be privatised. I asked why they had to be run by the state, because your thread started with the assumption that the service could only be provided by the state and will immediately and irretrivably vanish if the state stopped providing it. I simply asked why.

You've then gone on to state another assumption without evidence that librarians could only ever be employed.
 
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Dolph said:
Librarian is a skilled profession? There are professional qualifications that are required for the role? I think you are dramatically overestimating both the role and the requirements. Librarian is roughly equivalent of supermarket shop floor staff or fast food work in the vast majority of cases.
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Ha, haha! Oh, deary me Dolph. You really haven't read that article have you? If it's so easy would you like to do it then?
 
Superewza said:
Ha, haha! Oh, deary me Dolph. You really haven't read that article have you? If it's so easy would you like to do it then?
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I've read the article, it offers no actual evidence or justification and just a load of idealistic waffle about how only the status quo can ever work.

I'd happily volunteer to help run a local library, I love books, I love reading, and I'm pretty sure a volunteer led service would be better than the service the local council currently produces.
 
Dolph said:
Librarian is a skilled profession? There are professional qualifications that are required for the role? I think you are dramatically overestimating both the role and the requirements. Librarian is roughly equivalent of supermarket shop floor staff or fast food work in the vast majority of cases.
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Depends on the library. For local libraries, I'd agree with you to an extent, but for academic libraries, like at universities, then there are indeed professional qualifications issued by a chartered body so yes - it can indeed be a skilled profession.
 
vonhelmet said:
Depends on the library. For local libraries, I'd agree with you to an extent, but for academic libraries, like at universities, then there are indeed professional qualifications issued by a chartered body so yes - it can indeed be a skilled profession.
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University libraries I would agree with you (My uncle was head librarian at sheffield uni for many years, now he volunteers running book centres and finding rare books for charities). However, these are aren't the libraries we are discussing or that are under threat.
 
Dolph said:
I'I'd happily volunteer to help run a local library, I love books, I love reading, and I'm pretty sure a volunteer led service would be better than the service the local council currently produces.
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now i know your trolling... you think to be a librarian one just has to like reading books?

:D

keep em coming :)

and i agree with Superewza you unfortunately taint a lot of your very good posts with your constant privatization ravings (and u usually chuck in a wee snipe at labour in the same breath even if both topics have nothing to do with a thread :p)....to the extent that it dilutes the good quality of your posts Dolph....
 
Surfer said:
now i know your trolling... you think to be a librarian one just has to like reading books?
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I don't even think someone needs that really, just as someone who works in a supermarket doesn't have to like shopping ;)

However, from a voluntary viewpoint, having people with a passion for books would put them ahead of the current setup for a start.

and i agree with Superewza you unfortunately taint a lot of your very good posts with your constant privatization ravings (and u usually chuck in a wee snipe at labour in the same breath even if both topics have nothing to do with a thread :p)....to the extent that it dilutes the good quality of your posts Dolph....
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Perhaps, but we all can't help how we feel about things. I would point out again, however, that all I asked in this thread was why libraries needed to be run by the state, a question which so far hasn't been answered. I expressed no view so far on privatization.
 
Dolph said:
Why do libraries need to be run by the state?

Serious question.
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+1

It was a victorian thing i.e. giving the proles and drunks access to literature to better themselves and its kinda stuck about.

I don't know why universities don't charge a small fee and allow the public access to their range; or even businesses like Waterstones could set up a service. I am sure people would be willing to spend £5.00 per month on renting books.
 
Dolph said:
Are they not? We don't know because the state has decided an effective monopoly is the way forward.
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The state hasn't "decided" any such thing. The state has simply chosen to provide free libraries. If the private sector wishes to compete, it's more than welcome to have a go. There's no legal impediment.

Since you're always telling us that government is always irresponsible, inefficient and unnecessarily expensive, while the private sector is always more responsible, more efficient, and cheaper, this should be an easy win. Right?

:cool:
 
Evangelion said:
The state hasn't "decided" any such thing. The state has simply chosen to provide free libraries. If the private sector wishes to compete, it's more than welcome to have a go. There's no legal impediment.
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They aren't free, they are funded by the money taken via compulsion.

Since you're always telling us that government is always irresponsible, inefficient and unnecessarily expensive, while the private sector is always more responsible, more efficient, and cheaper, this should be an easy win. Right?

:cool:
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Not really, when you've been forced to pay once, then trick people into thinking they are free, it becomes harder to compete... Just as private schooling is actually cheaper per child than state schooling in the UK, yet we are tricked into thinking it is more expensive because we don't have any choice but to pay for it anyway ;)
 
vonhelmet said:
My wife works in a library, and complains so much about the idiotic management decisions that are made. They have endless middle managers enforcing stupid policies.

Acidhell2... A Lovefilm style business model wouldn't work for books due to cost, unless you could get the books in digital form, but I don't see ebooks taking off in anything like the same way as DVDs and games. Maybe in 10 years.
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Don't you live in the Wirral? I work in Wirral libraries too... :p
 
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