Lifting for gainzzz

[spoffle]

Just to add another point, surely following the same logic, it would be inadvisable for me to do push ups, due to my weight, the load would be significantly higher than 20, 40, 60, 80KG+, yet countless people manage pushups fine without warming up with little to no weights.

 

[spoffle]

The press up issue applies to everyone. For most people, unless they were children, they are going to be under more strain than the equivalent of 20KG bench press by doing press ups, which are done without a warm up. Additionally, I am under the impression that you think I am 150KG on a small frame, I do not have a small frame, by comparison, I have quite a large frame, things aren't as absolute as you seem to think.

I think you need to disassociate yourself and how 100KG is to you with how it is to other people.

I am not disagreeing that shoulders need warming up, what's under contention is the load required to warm up correctly, and the logic you're following is faulty as I've pointed out with the push ups thing.

The frustrating part is that you're misrepresenting what I'm saying, then arguing against that. At no point did I suggest that shoulders don't need warming up, I said that it's all relative.

You do also realise that Serge is not supporting your claims here, but mine, right? I think you might have misunderstood what he's saying.

 

[spoffle]

You seem to be asserting that 100KG is the same for everyone, you can hardly blame anyone for thinking that because you've strongly hinted at that being what you think.

About my frame, again it was said to reference the whole "it's relative" type of thing, but you seem to be putting 100KG on a pedestal or something, as you keep saying "if you're happy to do it without a warm up".

Again, the point about pressups is that they have different equivalent bench presses depending on how much you weigh, but I've never came across the notion that you'll trash your shoulders if you do press ups without a warm up.

For me, doing a press up feels no different in difficulty to bench pressing 100KG.

It's coming across as picking for the sake of it, as the scaremongering is getting a bit absurd now.

I feel like I'm being baited with ridiculous claims of injury (I am aware of you having trashed your shoulders doing something), so that I disagree with it, so there's more to complain about and insist that I'm strongly resisting advice because I have an ego problem.

 

[spoffle]

That's fair enough, it's the assertion of "good bye, shoulders" that came across badly, as it's almost saying that you guarantee I will get injured from it, that and the suggestion that I claimed that shoulders don't need to be warmed up.

 

[spoffle]

I do stretch them, fairly regularly, my shoulders too. I understand where you're coming from as I've said, it was just the way it was presented that came across badly.

 

[spoffle]

How strange, they are all working fine on my computers and phone. Oh well, if it works the other way, I'll make sure to do it without the watch part in future so you don't have any difficulties.

Yeah, it's the top floor at Serge's, how come?

 

[spoffle]

I had a feeling it'd be about that.

There are quite thick rubber mats down over the area, and it's a functional room with thick chipboard sheet flooring (as opposed to traditional floor boards), on to the joists with carpet over the top.

 

[spoffle]

That's fine, my only agenda here is safety and, if we ever get there, helping with technical problems and strength deficits. At the moment, a 300kg squat is a very long way away.

I can imagine you're going to get all resentful again, but to be blunt, it doesn't come across like that.

A friend of mine is a similar weight and is actually strong within his weight class, and not even a guy of his size can lift with those kinds of dysfunctions (he also benches over 200kg and warms up with the bar...). You can not get away with form like that forever.

Whay, sly digs! You do realise I haven't said it's wrong to warm up with the bar, don't you?

*sigh*

What are you even talking about? You're not even discussing lifting any more, and seem bizarrely interested in winning internet arguments of your own creation.

Don't play dumb, you know full well what I'm talking about, and I wasn't the one that instigated that. It's getting tiresome the amount of scaremongering that's going on here, the sly comments about how I'm most definitely going to hurt myself, then I see you giving people props for rough lifts, and then you wonder why I think you have some sort of agenda?

Why were you arguing with Delvis? Apart from your pointless conjecture, what knowledge of proper warm up procedure do you imagine you have? People who are considerably stronger than you warm up with the bar, because it's good practice. If that confuses you, please ask for an explanation rather than using your extremely limited knowledge and experience to argue against a very reasonable point.

As above, you do know why, you're just playing dumb. I am not saying it's wrong to warm up with the bar at all and you know that.

Additionally, some people who are considerably stronger also don't warm up with the bar. Less of the straw man arguments, yeah? Because it's becoming seriously tiresome that you and a few others are regularly selectively quoting what I'm saying, and then twisting it to suit the argument they want to have.

I never said his point was unreasonable, you know this, you also know that my main issue was the notion that I WILL damage my shoulders (Goodbye, shoulders). I understand that Delvis has trashed his shoulders a while back, I've seen comments about it, so I understand where he is coming from- what I disagree with is the seeming notion that "It's happened to me, it WILL happen to you".

You're the one making absolute statements, I'm not. I've said it's my personal preference, as lighter weights for warm ups do nothing for me. It's personal preference, I am not telling other people that is how they must do it, amusingly you are doing this, yet I'm the one getting grief for it. Lawdy lawd.

Oh and again, I know you saw my comments about pressups, why haven't you had a moan about that? Probably because you understand my point in relation to them, and most people doing pressups will have much more than the equivalent load of 20KG on their shoulders when doing it.

To simplify my point, and avoid "baiting" you into more ridiculous and time wasting arguments, your form is terrible. You have some very real movement issues that would be in your best interests to address. If you want help with these issue, I suggest you find a good coach or I will be happy to help. If not, or you are going to ask me to convince you that these issues exist, then good luck to you.

I love the way my form keeps getting worse each time I disagree with someone else, it's odd how that works isn't it?

I don't think my form is perfect (far from it) but the way you're acting differently towards me is just confusing, I'm not sure why you're doing that. Does the way you see things change depending on how malleable someone is?

 

[spoffle]

I'm trying to keep it civil, but the constant straw man arguments and misrepresentations are just getting tiresome, that, and the notion that I can't question something or disagree without being accused of being some sort of petulant child, or how my form is getting worse each time I contend a straw man argument, it's like I've been warped to pretend land.

 

[spoffle]

That's great, and I appreciate it, I'm just pointing out that it's a matter of preference, and that weight and the load bearing is different with different people.

I know the point of warming up isn't to feel like you're being worked out, that's been my whole point, 100KG doesn't feel like I'm being worked out. It genuinely feels very light.

I didn't take issue with that, as I've said a few times, it was the insistence that my shoulders will definitely explode because of it, and I then get moaned at for supposedly being absolutist.

 

[spoffle]

If 100kg felt genuinely light as you say, I'd expect you're working sets to be much more than they are. For example, at 83kg I can bench press 165, paused, but I still don't consider 100kg 'very light' despite being able to rep it till the cows come home. I start with the bar, and work up, allowing my muscles to get warm, the blood to flow and to avoid putting load on cold muscles. Your chest may be strong, but those rotator cuff muscles will wear over time and eventually snap.

You have been lifting for a long time though, no? I haven't really, and I know that development influences the upper end of strength, and nervous system ability that and I'm still working on getting into a grove of bench pressing.

I do consider 100KG very light, genuinely, I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it.

I'm not telling people not to warm up with the bar, though it seems like people think I am. I'm just saying that my preference is doing it this way, I have tried warming up with lighter weights and I don't actually start warming up until I hit 100, but it often means I've burnt energy.

 

[spoffle]

wow, people will see whatever they want to see, won't they?

Also, Hurley? Really? You're actually going down that path?

 

[spoffle]

Yes do this . Get spoffle file to film you getting in there first as well please

Spoffle file? What's that?

Spoffle, I am sorry to say but I have read most of what has been posted, and although you start out talking about lifting its slowly turning in to you trying to pick apart everyone else's posts, and selectively not quoting any of the sound advise your getting.

I'm not selectively quoting anyone, the reason I'm not picking apart the good advice is because it's good advice, I would have thought it was obvious. I'm also not picking apart everyone's posts. As I said, I'm finding it amusing that my form seems to be getting worse each time I post, can you blame me for responding in the way I am when that's happening?

You have been given some criticism and is seems like your more interested in trying to score points back on those people. To be fair I am surprised Icecold is still trying to offer help, especially when it's being given for free and you as the recipient are just trying to shoot down what he's posting.

I'm not trying to score any points, I am not dismissing any advice either, what I am dismissing is claims people are making that I know not to be true. Like BennyC's claims that I wouldn't be able to do a paused squat. It's frustrating that people are making those sort of claims when I know it's baseless, it comes across as picking for the sake of it.

In addition to that, Icecold seems to think I've asked for his advice, and I am now dismissing information I asked for. I just started by questioning what he was saying to me to gain a better understanding, something with which he took issue.

Although his posting style may come across blunt, his level of advise is something that many people pay good money for and just because he's typing to you over the interwebz doesn't down grade his level of knowledge, yet you seem content to try and counter his posts, rather then taking stuff on board and eating some humble pie (no pun intended before you take offence).

I'm not complaining about him being blunt, I'm as blunt as they come, that's not the issue. Have you honestly read my posts, or have you skimmed them? I am not dismissing advice, I have been querying it, and dismissing claims that just aren't true.

Your happy to admit that your level of lifting knowledge is limited and novice at best, so why try to counter what is sound advice?

I'm not, which is why I don't think everyone is actually reading my posts.

The whole warming up with 100kg is laughable. The weight might seem "very light" to you but as others have said that is 100% not the point. Your joints, ligaments, and smaller muscles will still be under higher levels of stress then unloaded, and getting them going with a few sets of the bar, 40 reps or so then jumping to 60 and smashing out a couple of sets of 10-20 reps is going to be nothing to you, but the unseen benefits will be 10 times better then the small mount of energy you will save by skipping that 5 mins of prep work.

Preference and all that, I've noticed Freefaller said he does the same a little while back as well.

In addition to that, yes I am a beginner, it doesn't mean I don't read around though, and it's not common for me to come across somewhere that says I should warm up with the bar, but rather it's a preference with what you warm up with.

Anyway I hope that you will take some of the advice from here, as your a strong chap and if you say injury free you will get a lot stronger, and that would be nice to see.

Please note that I haven't actually taken issue with anything you've said, what you've said is completely constructive. What I have taken issue with is the way some are basically almost laughing and then going "bye bye to xxxx". It is highly condescending.

Spoffle you do seem to be purposely defensive/abrasive to people here - I don't know why when people are just trying to help. I'm not speaking to you as a well versed gym rat, but as a person reading this thread (not a moderator - as I haven't needed to put this hat on), and you do seem to be a little highly strung for whatever reason.

I don't think everyone is trying to help, surely you get the points I've actually made, about why I've challenged things. I hate to bring it up again like a broken record but it seems like people are picking for the sake of it, but I still don't understand where the notion of "you can't do pause squats" has come from. I didn't like the way such things were being said with such authority, and the suggestion that I am lying when I have said it's not the case. That, and the way my form has gotten worse each time I've countered something, surely you can see that?

Can I suggest you either:

a) thank everybody for their help and either:

1) take on their advice
2) humour them and not take on their advice
3) carry on as you are,​

b) don't keep picking apart posts that are intended to help
c) get back to logging your work outs and interact with people here in a collaborative way
d) keep joining into the gym rat community with an open mind.

Some food for thought perhaps.

Have you honestly read everything that's been posted? I think you might have just skimmed my posts and think that I'm just arguing for the sake of it.

I've not once suggested that I don't need to work on anything, I've already said I have been stretching my chest and shoulders, I have said that I want to work on my flexibility, but this seems to have all been ignored in favour of picking at stuff again.

 

[spoffle]

Spoffle, as I said, I'm not interested in arguing with you. You haven't asked about the reasons for warming up from just the bar, so I have to assume you aren't interested. Similarly with the other points mentioned.

I understand why people like to warm up with the bar, I'm not contesting it, or saying it's wrong to do. Whereas I have people telling me I need to do it the way they're telling me, or I'll hurt myself.

I'm saying it's a personal preference

I sincerely hope you continue to pursue lifting and learn how to address your various deficits.

I sincerely believe this sort of situation would have come up had this sort of conversation been had in person due to the multitude of issues that come with text based communication. Too many assumptions are being made on what I'm saying and doing. I like to be thorough when I talk about subjects, especially when it's in relation to learning things.

You've also taken things I've said to BennyC as if I'm saying them to you, however the issue I've had is that it *seems* like you are giving props to others' lifts that are with worse form, which is what I tried to query, as I don't really get why you'd do that.

 

[spoffle]

No I've read everything, that goes with the badge. There you go being aggressive again - I suggest you maybe reflect and think about how you come across on the forums.

I'm not being aggressive, I was genuinely asking you a question, as it seems like my posts haven't been read properly. As I said, too many assumptions. It's not aggressive to question you, and it's certainly not intended to be aggressive, I am blunt and will say what I'm thinking, don't take it the wrong way as if I'm trying to start something.

 

[spoffle]

Perhaps it is the way you come across, but the common denominator is the fact that everyone feels the same way about your posts - gotta be a little bit of a clue surely

I understand that, I'm just assuring you that despite how I come across, I'm not actually being aggressive. As I said before, written communication and all that, if this was taking place in person you'd have a different impression.

Anyway - let's leave it at that, and good luck with your training.

I was going to do a session tonight, but I'm not sure, I'm way too tired so I might wait until tomorrow when I go over to Serge's (who is trying to bully me in to doing the Smolov routine with him).

 

[spoffle]

Undoubtedly and fair enough.

Speaking of which, could you do me a favour and remind monkee of the rules when it comes to personal attacks?

Jesus Hurly, you really are incredible even your training partner who was originally brought in to validate your argument seems to be finding a lot of common ground with Icecold!?

I'm quite surprised he wanted to go down this route considering the gynecomastia he's been suffering with, you'd have thought he'd be the last person to want to engage in that ratty sort of behaviour.

Sunday is a day of rest as far as I'm concerned so you won't find me arguing with you there!

Nearly every day this week has been a rest day for me.

 

[spoffle]

Soufflé, (what a delightful autocorrect), it's actually more because I find you to be a complete fantasist,

Right, right "that's" what you meant.

and in recent years I simply can't be bothered to bite my tongue.

In recent years? What are you on about? I think you're having delusions or something, I haven't been here for years, I have been here for a year and a half and I didn't start posting in the sports arena until I'd been here for getting on for a year already I think.

Additionally, what else is it that you think I've been saying that would be deemed fantasist nonsense?

You make ridiculous claims of not training for long

I haven't been training for long... how is it a ridiculous claim?

not taking it seriously

I haven't been taking it seriously either... how is it a ridiculous claim?

not being a massively dysfunctional lifter

Oh, have my lifts become even more dysfunctional since I've posted more?

and having 34" mostly muscle thighs.

I do have 34" thighs, where did I say mostly muscle? I don't actually remember that part (probably because I never actually said it).

However, what is it exactly that you're using to debunk my "ridiculous" and "fantasist" claims of having 34" mostly muscle thighs?

Maybe it's a case of you don't understand what fantasist actually means?

Apologies if I refer to you in a characiture that offends you, but please be aware of the characiture that you project.

So tell me more about how this has got anything to do with Hurley again?

Delusional. I bet my lifts are going to become even more dysfunctional again after this post, right?

I can't believe a fantasist is calling me a fantasist. I hope you've just derped hard and confused me with someone else, because otherwise, awkward.

Also, it's caricature.

 

[spoffle]

From a quick look I'd say you're somewhere around the 20st mark

Guesstimate 23-25st. You are a large fella!

I forgot to respond due to all the drama here. I'm just under 24st, I'm fluctuating between about 144KG and 148KG on average, the highest I've seen is 149KG, though I seem to be losing body fat a noticeable amount without my weight changing much, maybe it's because I'm also drinking a lot more water as well.

Anyways, here's my log for tonight.

Bench Press

100x5

130x5

150x4

160x1

170x1

180xfail

Both 160 and 170 were personal bests today, my previous personal best being 150, I'm not sure where the jump has came from, but I'm happy with it.

I had the strength in my chest for 180, as with 160 and 170, it came up off my chest very quickly, but pushing up with my triceps was the hardest part by far.

I want to work on some triceps assistance stuff, and see if I can hit 180 within a week.

Squats

I'm still butthurt that I couldn't squat on Friday, as I was feeling good about doing them.

I'm still feeling a bit cained (as usual, trying to sort out a terrible sleeping pattern) but I tried some anyway.

I just did some paused squats, as I indent to do a proper squat session tomorrow.

140 paused/concentric

160 paused/concentric

180 paused/concentric

200x1 - I was feeling seriously tired and rough by now, so I just did a regular non-paused squat

I'm hoping to be well rested, fed and watered tomorrow so I can do a good deal of volume on squats an bench press, and I'm thinking of doing some deadlifts and static bar holds for some forearm/grip assistance.

 

[spoffle]

MoNkeE, are you going to actually qualify the claims you made in your tenderness induced outburst?