Liverpool Takeover Thread

[Alpherah]

As said, anyone is better then the yanks we have now!

Personally i dont want a sugar daddy situation like Chelsea or City, just someone who will finance the stadium and run us debt free.
If you remove our interest payments from the equation, with the dramatic improvements to our revenue over the last 2 years thanks to Ayre, we would be able to fund ourselves in the transfer market for all but the 'biggest' most insane costing transfers (Yeah, thanks City / Madrid btw for starting this trend!)

 

[tsinc80697]

Can't wait to get the yanks out but certainly don't want Liverpool to be turned into Chelsea/Man City in terms of spending. Much rather put a team together over a few seasons, finding good young bargains and not splurging £50m when it's not needed.

If someone comes in and starts throwing hundreds of millions around it will tarnish the reputation and history of the football club. We need investment to become self-sufficient and to stay away from becoming a money-pit.

 

[aidan444]

So Gillett and his people seem to be attempting to put people off Huangs bid, SSN and some other unreliable source claiming CIC have denied backing Huang and have never heard of him, However this is not the case.

Here are a few Q&A's from Tony Barretts webchat;

Comment From Dave
How confident are you that CIC are behind the bid, another boradsheet is reporting that Kenny Huang PR agency has released a statemnt that CIC are not behind the bid.
Thursday August 5, 2010 14:55

Tony Barrett:
Hello Dave, to be fair the line about CIC wasn't mine so I can't be 100% sure of anything. The story was written by Helen Power, our business reporter who has unbelievable contacts in the financial world, and Tony Evans, who broke the original story about the interest from Mr Huang. I wouldn't hesitate in backing their judgement on this because they are about as close to the issue as it is possible to be. But there may be some smoke and mirrors to come simply because this is such a complex situation and maybe we won't have conclusive confirmation about who is and isn't involved in the bid until it is or isn't accepted.

-

Comment From Tony
Do you think James Milner is a possibilty?
Thursday August 5, 2010 15:03

Tony Barrett:
You would certainly hope not at the price Aston Villa are quoting. If Liverpool went down the Manchester City route of buying mediocre players at vastly inflated prices it would be almost as depressing as having no transfer funds at all.

lol @ that one.

--

Comment From Peter
Hi Tony, when do you think we will see a completed take over announced?
Thursday August 5, 2010 15:04

Tony Barrett:
Hello Peter, I keep hearing different things. Someone said to me earlier on today that Huang's bid is now "unstoppable" and could be complete within a week. Someone else said I should stand by my phone - whatever that means - because it could happen any day. The only thing that is clear is that Huang's bid has momentum.
Thursday August 5, 2010 15:05

--

Comment From Pete F
Tony, Its been denied this afternoon that Kenny Huang is being backed by the Chinese state, via a statement.
Thursday August 5, 2010 15:12

Tony Barrett:
Hello Pete, that's not the situation as I understand it having communicated with Huang's representatives in the last hour. I stand to be corrected if there is other information available though.
Thursday August 5, 2010 15:13

--


Comment From Dave
Hi Tony, why do you think that Kenny Huang has issued a statement denying backing by CIC.
Thursday August 5, 2010 15:18

Tony Barrett:
I've just been assured that Mr Huang and his representatives have issued no such statement, although one could follow later today. I have no idea what information it might contain though.
Thursday August 5, 2010 15:18

They are the only real ones worth reading.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Personally think it's terrible that the Chinese government are doing this when there are so many poor people in their own country, what does this say to them :s? We don't care, we'd rather pay some footballers £100k a week than help you

Welcome to not understanding the world economy.

CHina without export would burn down in a massive civil war, their whole industry is based around selling crap to western countries, and they've got more and more rivals these days. Not investing in business in other countries will effect them ALL, very very badly. The idea with most business ventures, international or domestic is to spend X amount of money, then make X + some more back.

There isn't a country out there that can stop all investing and spending, feed, house and give everyone a job, and succeed. Every country can stop all spending, buy food, build houses and get everyone a job, then next year, everyones bankrupted, loses everyones jobs, houses, no food for anyone.

But this is the thing people seem to be missing, Abramovich is a football fan and wants a team to win stuff, City are a play toy, with absolutely no business sense involved in any way whatsoever, Chelsea are now becoming a closer to breaking even team but need a new stadium really to do it.

This isn't a slush fund, but a foreign investment fund, much like several of the main investment funds from UAE/Abu Dhabi, which shouldn't be mixed up with the private funds of rich people to play with. THey are funds, from the UAE directed at building an income for when the oil runs out. Thats why many of the tech Abu Dhabi groups are investing heavily in Global Foundries, AMD, and LOADS of other future tech, its investment, not waste in any way at all.

Chinese are trying to offset the potential of western economys not buying from China in the future, or as much stuff, and investing in other industrys and countries.

The question is how much do they want to throw at Liverpool, do they just want a brand showing in the west, or do they want a successful team to parade around.

Thing is Liverpool will make loads of money in shirts sales and preseason tours in China bottom of the table or top.

I don't think the Chinese business funds will throw as much money around as some others think, but a successful team brings rewards.

Problem as I've highlighted before is, if most of the best players are already signed up, especially a lot in the past season or two, even if they had billions, who are they going to buy, and can they build a team good enough to win anything.

Villa, Messi, Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, they aren't going to Liverpool for ANY money.

 

[BaZ87]

Personally think it's terrible that the Chinese government are doing this when there are so many poor people in their own country, what does this say to them :s? We don't care, we'd rather pay some footballers £100k a week than help you

Like Moses said, any deal will be an investment for China. That's not to say they're going to make a significant return (by their standards) directly from the football club, however they'll make money indirectly from owning Liverpool.

Saying all that, for the exact reason you mention, I doubt we'll see anything like the sort of amount City have spent being spent at Liverpool (if this proves to be the real deal of course).

Rather than all the £bn's this fund has, what's most exciting about this deal is the possibility of Liverpool becoming 'The' football club in China, and the possibilities that come about from that. As it stands, it's only the likes of ourselves, Utd, Real and Barca that do ok in the far east but nobody has really cracked it over there.

 

[antijoke]

I agree 100% with DM and have said it myself, just who are we going to buy with the £150 million (if this figure is true).

No-one worth having is available.

 

[BaZ87]

When you've got money to burn players suddenly become available and we'd have far less difficulty attracting top players than City have had.

 

[CliffyBiro]

You mean the 'Liverpool Takeaway Thread!' *chortle*

 

[aidan444]

Tomorrows Times -

Latest from Tony Evans/Helen Power

Liverpool have told potential bidders for the club that they have until the middle of next week to prove they have the cash. The Times has also learnt more details about the leading bid, backed by the Chinese Government.

Martin Broughton, the Liverpool chairman, set the deadline yesterday. The club could change ownership as quickly as next Friday with the consortium fronted by Kenny Huang, the Hong Kong-based entrepreneur, remaining in pole position.

China Investment Capital (CIC), the investment arm of the Chinese Government, holds a significant stake in the bid, as revealed by The Times yesterday. It has now emerged that the man responsible for raising cash for the Chinese consortium is Dr Yang Guang, the executive vice-president of Franklin Templeton Investments, one of the largest global investment fund groups.

The New York-based Guang has acquired finance from a number of sources, including significant investment from banking institutions, but CIC would hold the majority stake in any takeover. However, CIC will not invest directly in the Merseyside club, but into a new company created specifically to push the deal through.
Guang joined QSL Sports Limited, Huang’s company, in May and has been a conduit for Chinese investment in the West since the early 1990s. The Harvard-educated financier has strong links with the Chinese Government.

Despite reports to the contrary yesterday, CIC has not denied its involvement in the Liverpool bid. Officials at China’s investment fund have assessed the business plans for the club and believe that CIC will make a considerable profit by pumping money into Anfield.

The decision to attempt to invest in Liverpool was taken purely on money-making potential and sources close to the deal were keen to distinguish CIC’s intentions from the takeovers at Chelsea and Manchester City, which came down to the decisions of rich individuals — Roman Abramovich and Sheihk Mansour respectively — to buy the clubs.

Unlike the owners of Chelsea and City, CIC would have little input in the day-to-day running of the club. Decision-making at Anfield would be left to executives with extensive experience in the Premier League, with new positions created to exploit Far Eastern markets.

Huang has already told Barclays Capital (BarCap), the investment bank brokering the sale, the Premier League and Broughton that he has the backing of CIC. BarCap needs proof that bidders are good for the £300 million plus required to buy the club before they can pass through to a final round of the auction.

Supporter reaction to the idea of Chinese-led ownership was generally favourable yesterday, with the majority of fans keen to see the back of Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr, the present co-owners.

The two other bids that remained on the table yesterday are thought to be from the private equity group, Rhône Capital, and the billionaire al-Kharafi family of Kuwait.
Further pressure was heaped on Hicks and Gillett to finalise a swift sale when an American court ruled yesterday that Hicks’s creditors can attempt to seize his assets.

The judge handling the bankruptcy of Hicks’s baseball team, the Texas Rangers, said lenders — who are still owed $525 million after the Texan defaulted on loans — can pursue his other companies for the money. One of the Rangers’ creditors is Alex Rodríguez, the former player and the youngest baseball player to hit 600 home runs.

Broughton declined to comment last night on whether creditors could try to enforce their claims against Hicks’s share of Liverpool.

 

[Rotty]

Oh how we will all laugh if those 2 ***** get shafted out of all this


and as thought all along it appears their Syrian wideboy seems to have no credibility

 

[jakeke]

Like Moses said, any deal will be an investment for China. That's not to say they're going to make a significant return (by their standards) directly from the football club, however they'll make money indirectly from owning Liverpool.

Saying all that, for the exact reason you mention, I doubt we'll see anything like the sort of amount City have spent being spent at Liverpool (if this proves to be the real deal of course).

Rather than all the £bn's this fund has, what's most exciting about this deal is the possibility of Liverpool becoming 'The' football club in China, and the possibilities that come about from that. As it stands, it's only the likes of ourselves, Utd, Real and Barca that do ok in the far east but nobody has really cracked it over there.

We'll see how it goes but football clubs are notoriously bad investments and very few make any profit year after year. The big clubs are far more likely to make money and as you say, if the whole of China get on it then there will certainly be money to be made, but I just don't see it as the best way to make money and on the scale of money that governments handle, any profits must be peanuts in comparison.

I suppose they could be aiming to get the club out of it's current jam and raise the value over the next 5 years, but with the competition all getting better you can't help but feel a decent amount of cash needs to be spent to get Liverpool to compete for the title again, especially with City looking like they're going to keep spending as much money as they want until they start winning everything. Obviously cutting into profits even further, especially with ever-rising transfer fee's.

 

[BaZ87]

but I just don't see it as the best way to make money and on the scale of money that governments handle, any profits must be peanuts in comparison.

I know. I said this in the post you just quoted

Even with the new stadium and increased exposure in China and the Far East, it will take years of profits before they'll see a return on their investment. The increased value of the club will be the most realistic way they'll see a return but like you say (and me before you ), it won't be a significant return by their standards.

The value in the deal will come indirectly from owning Liverpool. Where can you buy a brand (cringes) name like Liverpool for ~£300m? As crazy as it may sound, it's the same with City and their Arabs; it's an investment but not in the same way as the Glazers or H&G.

Here's an article talking specifically about how China would benefit from owning Liverpool:

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/...rpool-fc-purchase-good-news-for-shanghai.html

 

[Weebull]

They'd be doing it as an investment... so it'd be making their country money, which is good for China. If they invest in a stadium, and aren't wasting profits paying interest, then Liverpool will make them money.

Number of Premier League clubs that make a profit: 5

Number of Premier League clubs that make a significant enough profit that any investors could possibly see a return on a ~£300m input: 2*

Admittedly Liverpool are one of the few other clubs that could match this, but they're in a pretty precarious position at the moment. A bad start to the season and they're possibly going to need the risky gameble of expensive mid-season signings, for a CL spot they may well not get.

*Excluding Man Utd, who are a bit of a special case at the moment.

 

[platypus]

When you've got money to burn players suddenly become available and we'd have far less difficulty attracting top players than City have had.

I think the name and history will help Liverpool attract players more easily than City did as well as the filthy amounts of money.

 

[AtticusFinch]

Firstly

Personally think it's terrible that the Chinese government are doing this when there are so many poor people in their own country, what does this say to them :s? We don't care, we'd rather pay some footballers £100k a week than help you

You understand they'll only invest if they can make a profit out of it right?

Ergo - they end up with more money than they invest and then that money can be used by the share/unit holders in the investment vehicle (the Chinese governement) to spend on infrastructure et al in due course - thereby increasing the total welath they have to use for that purposes.

 

[jakeke]

You understand they'll only invest if they can make a profit out of it right?

Ergo - they end up with more money than they invest and then that money can be used by the share/unit holders in the investment vehicle (the Chinese governement) to spend on infrastructure et al in due course - thereby increasing the total welath they have to use for that purposes.

Yes, my opinion is that it'll be harder than they anticipate to make a profit. Football clubs need to be run extremely, extremely well to make any profit whatsoever.

 

[goonerfan]

yeah that's that expression isn't there; there's only one way to get really rich from football, and that's to start by being really really rich!

I think any investment company looking to make money on Liverpool at the moment is going to have a hard job doing so... They need a new stadium to be able to compete on matchday revenue with the London clubs who can charge exorbitant amounts for tickets, and with United who have such a huge fanbase. That's not to mention money that needs to be spent on the squad to keep the team competitive to ensure they get a bigger slice of the TV deal, and keeping the team in the Champions league.

I don't mean to say that Liverpool can't turn a profit, but any investment company looking for quick returns within say a decade isn't likely to find anything; look no further than the previous owners for proof.

If you look at Arsenal, we're about 5-10 years further down that very path; and we're a good example to any potential investors in Liverpool that the football business model can work and produce a profit, but at the expense of competing with those flashing the cash. We've been very consistent at finishing in the top 4 and reaching the last 16 of the champions league, but we're unlikely to win a trophy any time soon. :\

The thing is Manchester United are the only other club that make a profit and they're the anomaly; they manage to be successful and produce an excess of cash (though this has been hindered to a degree by the leveraged buyout). I honestly don't think Liverpool can emulate them (I'm not knocking Liverpool's history) but United have a vast stadium, and a worldwide following that's unlikely to be eclipsed by another club.

If this Chinese investment firm do become the new owners, they will be looking to make money on the club's back as drunkenmaster says, and Liverpool fans shouldn't expect something like the Man City scenario; more like the Arsenal situation. But from what I hear from Alpherah, tsinc and others, you'd quite like that?

 

[BaZ87]

.....

As I said in my last post, the real value in the deal will come indirectly from owning Liverpool rather than profits or even the increased value of the club that may come about.

It's no different with City and Abu Dhabi; they're never (or not until the very distant future) going to see a return on the money they've invested in City directly from the club. But owning City and the exposure they're getting, generates the value in an indirect way.

 

[elmuzzy66.]

The club does make money, its just the profits are been used to paid the debt. Get rid of that and a new stadium and it will be making a tidy profit in the long run

 

[goonerfan]

well that's the point I'm making: paying off the debt from the leveraged buyout and finding the finances for a new stadium is at least £500m of investment that this CIC firm is not going to see a return on for decades...

Just don't be expecting huge transfers fees and wages is all I'm saying