LOG: PS3 YLOD Fix

[delta99]

My 250GB PS3 Slim died last week... YLOD.
Only bought it DEC 2009.

I rang sony and they replaced it the next day for free... Didn't even ask for a receipt, just the serial #.

DPD came and swapped them over. It's a refurb but brand new casing, so far so good.

 

[TheKeiron]

Ylod has returned dunno what happened the PS3 didn't even feel that hot! I played quite a few games then it just shut itself down n did the red blinking light, then when I tried to switch it back on I got ylod! I'm gonna contact Retronix, a reball should have lasted a lot longer than this!

 

[trentlad]

NOOO!!!

That completely goes against the lead solder theory; about how the lack of lead in current solder prevents it from sealing back together when heated close to melting temperature and causes microscopic fissures.

Mate I'm so sorry to hear that, it's horrible news and especially when you took such a by-the-book route to fixing the YLOD.

I wonder what happened?

 

[PSX]

Awesome thread, many (many) hours of internet scouring to turn this one up.. My sister's launch PS3 died a couple of weeks ago with YLOD - 60GB unit, bought in November 2007. Seemed like the switch-on of radiators due to the recent cold snap, combined with the console having been left on all night - then immediately (by me) put to work downloading an upgrade, caused the fail...

Disassembled the unit (easy to do, follow Gilksy's guides) and applied Arctic Silver thermal compound (blob-in-centre method) to RSX and Cell, bent heatsink brackets slightly for a little more tension and reassembled - still YLOD.

So.. took the unit to London to PS Pros - wasn't quite as I expected there but very friendly and helpful, also quick! The PCB was placed into an oven for a few minutes from what I gather (had to pop out to the cashpoint while machine was being worked on). Half an hour later, successfully bench tested then reassembled and back in my hands for £82 inc VAT.

Now we wait.. as everything I'm reading states that for as long as lead-free solder is on the board, a recurrence is likely. I also am looking to protect my own PS3. First I want to carefully reapply compound to my sister's PS3 to ensure coverage across the whole heatspreader.

Second, I've bought up a 19-blade fan for my PS3 and APS-231 power supply from ebay which is *reported* as being compatible back to the 60gb units. I need to do further research before fitting this; the claim is that the newer power supplies draw less from the mains, but still provide enough for the PCB, so ought to run cooler.

HOWEVER... reducing the maximum overall temperature of the system will probably only increase the time before my console also fails! Motherboards always warp with time and heat, so I am also looking for a reballing service which I can call upon if/when mine eventually dies..

Perhaps the more prudent option is to wait until failure, use PS Pros again for the oven-based "quick reflow fix" - then immediately buy a Slim and do a full transfer, having lost nothing. But delta99 mentions a Dec09 slim failing too... shocking!!

TheKeiron - when you reassembled your PS3, how did you go about re-applying thermal compound to the RSX and Cell? I've seen photos of the RSX with its heatspreader removed and found the CPU set as a diamond in the centre, with 4x RAM chips at each of the corners. Do you know the details on Retronix applying new thermal compound (NON-conductive obviously) between the chips within the CPU and the heatspreader cap?

Apologies for length

Alex

 

[Sir Alan]

Ylod has returned dunno what happened the PS3 didn't even feel that hot! I played quite a few games then it just shut itself down n did the red blinking light, then when I tried to switch it back on I got ylod! I'm gonna contact Retronix, a reball should have lasted a lot longer than this!

Oh mate, that really really sucks! I too have a YLOD PS3 and upon finding this thread thought my problems would soon end... I even got round to emailing the guys you found but alas almost a week later and still no reply, which seems rather ominous now having now read your situation.

I do hope you manage to get to the bottom of the issue, to spend that sort of dough and still not resolve the problem is just bewildering

 

[TheKeiron]

I gave Retronix a call about the ylod coming back...and it turns out they didnt reball the RSX they reballed only the cell! They said they would reball the RSX free of charge i just had to send it back to them! Lets hope it does the trick

TheKeiron - when you reassembled your PS3, how did you go about re-applying thermal compound to the RSX and Cell? I've seen photos of the RSX with its heatspreader removed and found the CPU set as a diamond in the centre, with 4x RAM chips at each of the corners. Do you know the details on Retronix applying new thermal compound (NON-conductive obviously) between the chips within the CPU and the heatspreader cap?

Apologies for length

Alex

Hi Alex - i used a credit card to reapply the thermal compound (i used a silver based thermal compound) a very thin layer, and regarding retronix's details on the thermal compound between the chips i havent a clue sorry!

EDIT: regarding the application of the thermal compound, i made sure there was no gaps on the chip (applying a tiny blob of thermal compound anywhere that had a gap) as its very hard to get a full even spread!

 

[Sir Alan]

I gave Retronix a call about the ylod coming back...and it turns out they didnt reball the RSX they reballed only the cell! They said they would reball the RSX free of charge i just had to send it back to them! Lets hope it does the trick

Mate you have no idea how badly i am wanting your story to be a success! With the launch of Black Ops soo close now, i'll admit i'm becoming increasingly desperate to have a working PS3... Oh and i meant to ask in my last post but could you tell me who you emailed at Retronix (and their email address) because i've still not heard anything back and i'm beginning to think i might have emailed the wrong person and/or got the wrong address lol

Thanks.

 

[PSX]

TheKeiron - thanks for the update! I guess the reason the machine worked temporarily is that the RSX might have been partially reflowed while the Cell was being reflowed back onto the board after reballing?

Anyway let's hope that the RSX reball will make the repair more permanent - I plan to do the "thermal upgrades" to my system at the weekend... Do report back and let us know how you get on, and in the months to come after the RSX reball!

Thanks,

Alex

 

[TheKeiron]

I agree the reballing process probably temporarily reflowed the RSX chip, I posted back my PCB to Retronix today special delivery so it'll be there early Monday hopefully, so with any luck I'll have it back by the end of next week (and hopefully it'll last more than a lousy week!)

 

[PSX]

Just an update on the work I've been doing on my console..

Tried the 19-blade fan - it's definitely quieter.. but the blades are significantly smaller! This is a difficult thing to measure but I wasn't convinced that it could push as much air through the heatsink as the curved-blade 15-blade unit. So I've gone back to the 15-bladed one for now, pending further research (curved blades vs. 'paddle' flat blades - that'll be a lengthy Google I think).

Second change was to the APS-231 power supply. First I tested the APS-227 that's in there currently - the top of the unit does get quite hot for certain - I didn't check the temperature of the side or base, but it does sit directly above the RSX I believe, which could contribute board warping from the backside of the PCB (only a thin foam pad separates PSU from metal PCB heatshield). The APS-231 seemed only marginally cooler than the 227, but I have left it in for now. The only report I had read about crashing referred to Killzone 2 - but that has booted up OK so I'm thinking the compatibility will be alright at a basic level.

I put some further thought to this though; if PS3 requires 250W to run game X, then it'll draw 250W with whatever PSU is in there... Watts equals heat, unless you improve the efficiency of the components providing it; and it would seem that the 231 is not THAT much more efficient than the 227. However the 231 DOES have a lower MAX output rating than the 227. So I determined the only real significant difference here is that the 231 has a plastic base which will give it some insulation from the PCB. I am considering reverting back to the 227 to be absolutely sure the PSU won't be burnt out (even though the maximum current draw measured from a first gen PS3 seems to be less than 210W versus 231's max output of 280W). There is a chance that I am overloading the 12A rail without actually reaching 100% of the MAX total watts output! My reason being that when a PSU blows, there is a chance of it dumping a surge into the PCB, possibly destroying some components or blowing on-board fuses/resistors that would be hard to replace.

To mitigate a change back to the 227 power supply, though (since it has a metal base), I am considering gluing a piece of silicone heat resistant mat to it to provide insulation. I'm currently trying to decide what other impacts this might have, and the best way to affix it to the PSU before I continue.

After applying new thermal compound (and yes, the OEM thermal paste was a complete mess when I got there), the system does seem to take an extra couple of minutes to reach full fan speed, although the exhaust air is still pretty hot (accompanied by a mild burning smell from the PSU - I guess it was never worked quite so hard in its former life in a 40GB console).

I considered the possibility that the system would in fact be fine with no mods at all after the thermal paste; since it lived this long in the same design while the original thermal paste was still conducting a good amount of heat.. Renewing this small element might restore full performance for another three years...

...however I am still going to install the fan controller when this arrives from Canada. I think since the console always goes to a pretty audible fan speed after a couple of minutes, it makes very little difference to force it to a little higher than this speed from boot. Might try the 19-bladed fan and try to measure airflow versus noise (if I can't find the part numbers and specs listed on Google that is...)

More to follow soon.


Thanks,

Alex


P.S. TheKeiron - hope they return your console soon, let us know what the outcome is when it arrives back!

 

[TheKeiron]

Just an update on the work I've been doing on my console..

Tried the 19-blade fan - it's definitely quieter.. but the blades are significantly smaller! This is a difficult thing to measure but I wasn't convinced that it could push as much air through the heatsink as the curved-blade 15-blade unit. So I've gone back to the 15-bladed one for now, pending further research (curved blades vs. 'paddle' flat blades - that'll be a lengthy Google I think).

Second change was to the APS-231 power supply. First I tested the APS-227 that's in there currently - the top of the unit does get quite hot for certain - I didn't check the temperature of the side or base, but it does sit directly above the RSX I believe, which could contribute board warping from the backside of the PCB (only a thin foam pad separates PSU from metal PCB heatshield). The APS-231 seemed only marginally cooler than the 227, but I have left it in for now. The only report I had read about crashing referred to Killzone 2 - but that has booted up OK so I'm thinking the compatibility will be alright at a basic level.

I put some further thought to this though; if PS3 requires 250W to run game X, then it'll draw 250W with whatever PSU is in there... Watts equals heat, unless you improve the efficiency of the components providing it; and it would seem that the 231 is not THAT much more efficient than the 227. However the 231 DOES have a lower MAX output rating than the 227. So I determined the only real significant difference here is that the 231 has a plastic base which will give it some insulation from the PCB. I am considering reverting back to the 227 to be absolutely sure the PSU won't be burnt out (even though the maximum current draw measured from a first gen PS3 seems to be less than 210W versus 231's max output of 280W). There is a chance that I am overloading the 12A rail without actually reaching 100% of the MAX total watts output! My reason being that when a PSU blows, there is a chance of it dumping a surge into the PCB, possibly destroying some components or blowing on-board fuses/resistors that would be hard to replace.

To mitigate a change back to the 227 power supply, though (since it has a metal base), I am considering gluing a piece of silicone heat resistant mat to it to provide insulation. I'm currently trying to decide what other impacts this might have, and the best way to affix it to the PSU before I continue.

After applying new thermal compound (and yes, the OEM thermal paste was a complete mess when I got there), the system does seem to take an extra couple of minutes to reach full fan speed, although the exhaust air is still pretty hot (accompanied by a mild burning smell from the PSU - I guess it was never worked quite so hard in its former life in a 40GB console).

I considered the possibility that the system would in fact be fine with no mods at all after the thermal paste; since it lived this long in the same design while the original thermal paste was still conducting a good amount of heat.. Renewing this small element might restore full performance for another three years...

...however I am still going to install the fan controller when this arrives from Canada. I think since the console always goes to a pretty audible fan speed after a couple of minutes, it makes very little difference to force it to a little higher than this speed from boot. Might try the 19-bladed fan and try to measure airflow versus noise (if I can't find the part numbers and specs listed on Google that is...)

More to follow soon.


Thanks,

Alex


P.S. TheKeiron - hope they return your console soon, let us know what the outcome is when it arrives back!

Wow you have done quite a bit of work! Thanks for the updates

I had a somewhat crazy idea to kill the heat: would there be a way to externalise the power supply? I thought maybe if you could extend the cables from the power supply somehow and drill some holes through the case to plug it into the board it could reduce the heat. Obviously it would probably look hideous lol but it could reduce the heat the ps3 kicks out by a significant amount! I googled it and i'm suprised to see i couldnt find anyone who tried it...

 

[PSX]

With all the searching I've done, only a couple of people seemed to muse over the concept of running the PSU externally.. I see no reason why it couldn't be done though! Sure you would probably lose a little bit of current by having some flex in between PSU and board, but that should be minimal losses. The trickiest bits would be finding the appropriate connectors to make the extension more "plug and play" rather than soldering, and then how to prepare the PSU for life outside its plastic shell.. I'm presuming it would need its vent holes to remain open.. Also you would need to take care that everything is still properly earthed for safety, as this is significant meddling with the original design

Had a few hours of Killzone 2 last night - the system did get pretty hot, the air at the vents (top/back) with the console vertical as usual was almost uncomfortable to touch for more than a few seconds. I did notice that the fan subtly increases in speed beyond the 'standard' speed that is reached after approx. 10 minutes of being switched on, however this is a small increase. A bloke on Ebay is selling a different fan controller that supposedly still uses the PWM signal from the motherboard, only amplifies it by 40% (no manual adjustment). I like this idea in case the console should decide to throttle up the fan in an emergency (i.e. it would still be electronically controlled, rather than by an adjuster) - but not sure if I would still prefer the manual control.


Alex

 

[trentlad]

Well I think I'm going to take a leaf out of Keiron's book and pay to get my PS3 reballed.

Found this guy on eBay, he's got great reviews and even uses leaded solder. The fix will put me back by $100 which is a lot but a new PS3 would cost about three times as much.

Better get this bag of bricks bubbled wrapped and ready to ship.

The process of REBALLING is just a bit more complicated. First, you disassemble the PS3 down to the motherboard and clean it thoroughly. Then you apply heat to the chips and remove them from the board. Using a desoldering vacuum or desoldering braid you remove all the former solder balls that the chips were setting on. After you finish the board you need to clean the chips and prepare them with tacky flux. Next you need to place the the chip inside the reballing device and place the appropriate BGA stencil over it. Now come the balls, DaggerPCs uses leaded .65mm and .60mm which are exactly the same as the factory solder balls but, these balls contain lead which can easily withstand changes in temperature and return to there original shape without cracking. After the balls are placed, heat is applied to fuse balls to the chips and finally the chips are positioned over the motherboard and heat is again applied to fuse the chip to the board. DaggerPCs has switched to only using this reball process because it is a permanent fix, and the only problem with PS3's over heating is resolved by this process. DaggerPCs is proud to be able to offer a one year warranty for this process.

--------------------The Process of Getting Your Repair Done by DaggerPCs--------------------

Step 1= You will contact us if you have any questions about our service before placing a BUY IT NOW for our auction via Email here on Ebay or TEXT
(956) 821-7939 (7am-7pm Central Standard Time) Email will be answered in less than a day / Texts will be answered within 3 hours.
Step 2= You will provide your name phone number and address while placing your BUY IT NOW.
Step 3= You will need to ship your PS3 to my location. Please package your item for shipping as though it is working.
Step 4= DaggerPCs will receive your item and call you to tell you we have received it or simply message you it you prefer
Step 5= DaggerPCs will repair your PS3 in a time frame based on your price payed as follows:
3 week Package: 60 dollars and step 5 will be guaranteed in three weeks.
(By allowing more room to move your repairs around on our schedule we offer the above discounts.)
Step 6= DaggerPCs will ship your item back to you Parcel Post with a tracking number and insurance.

If it hasn't become clear to anyone yet, it's the lead free solder that causes the PS3 to YLOD after constant re-heating. Here's a great picture to show you the difference between leaded and lead free.

 

[Sir Alan]

Well I think I'm going to take a leaf out of Keiron's book and pay to get my PS3 reballed.

Found this guy on eBay, he's got great reviews and even uses leaded solder. The fix will put me back by $115 which is a lot but a new PS3 would cost about three times as much.

$115 ~= £72? bargain if it works. Does the bank charge you a fee for paying in a foreign currency or am i making that up?

Am i right in guessing that the repair place you're talking about is in America, if so the postage must be well hefty? At one point a few months back i found this legit reball place but there was just one snag, he's based in Moscow, Russia . I really considered it for a while but after sleeping on it decided against it hence no PS3 for me over the last 3 months....

I'm not saying don't go for it but the lead that keiron found really seems legit and they are a lot closer to home (i'm working on the assumption you're British lol if not my bad). I finally got a reply back to the email i sent Retronix and they sound promising though he didn't quite answer any of my questions, so i had to send him another one, which i'm currently waiting on.

Let us know if you decide to send your console to the guy and what happens but i suppose at 3 week turn around you won't know the result for a while. Which reminds me, Keirons unit should be in transit at the moment, maybe he'll have some good news to share soon?

 

[PSX]

trentlad - good find, the process certainly sounds good, it's a well written description and the one year warranty is the best I've seen so far for that price! My only question is what equipment is used? If the vendor could provide the model number of the 'reballing device' then you can get some great insight. Also I believe it's quite important that the PCB is secured to a jig when reballing takes place, to avoid the risk of warping the board as the RSX is removed. In any case though, if the vendor has invested in serious kit to do the work, then I would be quite ready to assume that he has probably practised and knows how to use it

The photograph of leaded vs. non-leaded solder is also really interesting.. yes the fault is caused by cracking of non-leaded solder balls...BUT my understanding is this is accelerated because the motherboard warps and flexes with heat! I'd recommend, if you send your console off for a repair, that you make a tweak afterwards to increase the fan speed and replace thermal compound on the CPU heatspreaders to ensure heat levels are kept down!

Alex

 

[TheKeiron]

$115 ~= £72? bargain if it works. Does the bank charge you a fee for paying in a foreign currency or am i making that up?

Am i right in guessing that the repair place you're talking about is in America, if so the postage must be well hefty? At one point a few months back i found this legit reball place but there was just one snag, he's based in Moscow, Russia . I really considered it for a while but after sleeping on it decided against it hence no PS3 for me over the last 3 months....

I'm not saying don't go for it but the lead that keiron found really seems legit and they are a lot closer to home (i'm working on the assumption you're British lol if not my bad). I finally got a reply back to the email i sent Retronix and they sound promising though he didn't quite answer any of my questions, so i had to send him another one, which i'm currently waiting on.

Let us know if you decide to send your console to the guy and what happens but i suppose at 3 week turn around you won't know the result for a while. Which reminds me, Keirons unit should be in transit at the moment, maybe he'll have some good news to share soon?

I think the problem is the guy whose email address they provide on the website is not like a public relations guy he's 'Director of European Operations' so I think he's a busy guy and not at a computer often! I found that itsbest to give him a call instead and physically talk to him (i think he carries a phone with him) I can PM you the number if you don't have it?

@trentlad: who's the guy you found on ebay who does the reball?

Update on my PCB: I gave the guy at Retronix a call and he said it'll hopefully be back to me on tuesday

 

[trentlad]

I took the plunge with that eBay listing just before I posted about it on here, after reading his feedback and the questions he's answered and made visible in the listing he seems credible. I'm still waiting for him to send me his shipping address!

Also I believe it's quite important that the PCB is secured to a jig when reballing takes place, to avoid the risk of warping the board as the RSX is removed.

.. yes the fault is caused by cracking of non-leaded solder balls...BUT my understanding is this is accelerated because the motherboard warps and flexes with heat!

I'd recommend, if you send your console off for a repair, that you make a tweak afterwards to increase the fan speed and replace thermal compound on the CPU heatspreaders to ensure heat levels are kept down!

That's good to know, I haven't come across that point. I'll ask him if he uses a jig to secure the board and explain the worry about the mobo warp potentially being an additional cause.

Alex - Do you possibly have a link to tweak the fan speed?

 

[PSX]

trentlad - good stuff, keep us informed

Here's the "plug and play" mod without manual adjustment:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PS3-INTERNAL-...s_VideoGameAccessories_JN&hash=item3cafe7bc16

..and the manual fan controller I've ordered from Canada:

http://www.sudburymods.com/PS3fanmod.html

Yesterday I got hold of one of these external PS3 fans that sits on top of the console in vertical mode - theyre not any more noisy than the stock fan and they do seem to move a reasonable amount of air, so I'd say they might be worth a go.. It's made by Konig but you can find them all over ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-PlayStat...s_VideoGameAccessories_JN&hash=item4cf2884b60

Shall be running my console with that until the fan controller arrives. I also put the old APS-227 PSU back in and insulated its base with some thin silicon mat (under 2mm) which I cut to fit under the PSU. Finally I am trialling the 19-blade fan once more; though I am starting to realise that I'll really need a multimeter with thermometer probe to get a "real" indication of what impact these mods are having.


Alex

 

[Sir Alan]

I think the problem is the guy whose email address they provide on the website is not like a public relations guy he's 'Director of European Operations' so I think he's a busy guy and not at a computer often! I found that itsbest to give him a call instead and physically talk to him (i think he carries a phone with him) I can PM you the number if you don't have it?

Ah i see, that would make sense. Theres a phone number of the contacts page where i found his email address is this the one you're using? If not then yes please i would appreciate a PM, thanks.

So your PCB might be back just in time for Black Ops! i'm soo jealous...

 

[TheKeiron]

Ah i see, that would make sense. Theres a phone number of the contacts page where i found his email address is this the one you're using? If not then yes please i would appreciate a PM, thanks.

So your PCB might be back just in time for Black Ops! i'm soo jealous...

Argh how do you PM on this?! Can't find any option anywhere to PM is it cuz i'm a newish member?
I would post the guys number here but I'm afraid he'll get bombarded with calls lol
I've added you on the friends/contact thing maybe I'll get the PM option if you accept?