London Bridge Incident

ChroniC · 6 Jun 2017 at 10:37

Tefal said:
Surely yes?

i mean given they started a civil war?

Tefal said:
kinda trying to dodge there arent you?

I'm not trying to dodge anything, if some people in a foreign country want to kill each other then let them have their small war with their untrained soldiers and their rubbish guns. I have a problem when US firms and the US government seeing it as a way to make money and then suddenly it's their problem too and somehow were involved now too. The sale of guns to that area hasn't helped anyone and wasn't necessary.
Then the US go to sort out their mess and far far more innocent people get caught in the crossfire of US bombing targets than would have in a non US fed civil war.

If I was an innocent Syrian civilian watching my country be blown to bits and shot to **** by US guns I would have a greivance with the West too. I don't doubt either than the UK has been arming people either given we sell 3bn worth of arms a year. Most likely to the Saudis who then send it to Syria. We're essentially fueling a fire we're trying to put out and innocent people are being caught up in it.

Robbo · 6 Jun 2017 at 10:40

Tefal said:
did churches refuse last rights and funeral services to IRA/loyalist casualties?

Did they? If not then they are no better.

Dis86 · 6 Jun 2017 at 10:51

ChroniC said:
I'm not trying to dodge anything, if some people in a foreign country want to kill each other then let them have their small war with their untrained soldiers and their rubbish guns. I have a problem when US firms and the US government seeing it as a way to make money and then suddenly it's their problem too and somehow were involved now too. The sale of guns to that area hasn't helped anyone and wasn't necessary.
Then the US go to sort out their mess and far far more innocent people get caught in the crossfire of US bombing targets than would have in a non US fed civil war.

If I was an innocent Syrian civilian watching my country be blown to bits and shot to **** by US guns I would have a greivance with the West too. I don't doubt either than the UK has been arming people either given we sell 3bn worth of arms a year. Most likely to the Saudis who then send it to Syria. We're essentially fueling a fire we're trying to put out and innocent people are being caught up in it.

So you blame the people supplying the guns, not the people using them. Smart.
It's like blaming asda because your mate was stabbed with a potato peeler or ford after your cousin is hit by a drink driver.

ChroniC · 6 Jun 2017 at 10:56

Dis86 said:
So you blame the people supplying the guns, not the people using them. Smart.
It's like blaming asda because your mate was stabbed with a potato peeler or ford after your cousin is hit by a drink driver.

No it's ****** not. Jesus wept. I agree mad men will be mad men but the supply of weapons is a bad thing anywhere. It's more akin to supplying a knife in a bar fight, thinking your going to help someone.
Dear god your analogy is terrible.

Uther · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:05

Just had the 2 minutes silence. All I could think was how long before we are doing it again.

McGray · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:14

Dis86 said:
So you blame the people supplying the guns, not the people using them. Smart.
It's like blaming asda because your mate was stabbed with a potato peeler or ford after your cousin is hit by a drink driver.

No, it isn't at all.

Dis86 · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:17

McGray said:
No, it isn't at all.

And how is it not? A gun is a tool. Its the people wielding them that are the problem.

Six6siX · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:24

For those who participated in the minutes silence, can you please explain what your reason for doing so was?

Can you explain how it is any different to changing your profile picture on Facebook? How is this different to any other 'passive' method of support for victims and/or condemnation of terrorists?

Some people who appear to dismiss the latter quite happily participate in the former.

Freakbro · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:24

Thompson_NCL said:
Are these the same Iman's that run mosques which sell radical material and who played host to radical preachers for decades?

Got any proof they are? Bearing in mind the posts on here by people who have/do visit mosques up and down the country and say they haven't heard any hate preaching.

And I wouldn't class mrk as a radical/apologist/sympathiser or whatever you wan't to call someone who doesn't corroborate your view that all Mosques do it

This is nothing more than crocodile tears.

Right....so you criticise them when they do nothing and you criticise them when they do something.....I get the feeling they can't win in your eyes no matter what they do

beachBOYken · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:25

I read that 5 or 6 people are still missing from the attack.

Felon · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:27

ChroniC said:
No it's ****** not. Jesus wept. I agree mad men will be mad men but the supply of weapons is a bad thing anywhere. It's more akin to supplying a knife in a bar fight, thinking your going to help someone.
Dear god your analogy is terrible.

I agree quite strongly,

It somewhat tends to stick in the craw a little, when we behave as paragons of decency and upstanding - whilst selling the sorts of things we do, to some of the dregs of the world, and when anything bad happens - of course, it's nothing to do with us because we didn't pull the trigger...

ChroniC · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:27

Dis86 said:
And how is it not? A gun is a tool. Its the people wielding them that are the problem.

Even so if your aware that the people are a problem and you give them something that going to exacerbating the problem, should you not be to blame for that, especially if that leads to innocent bystanders being involved too.

Ayahuasca · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:30

beachBOYken said:
I read that 5 or 6 people are still missing from the attack.

Hmmm I think you've read some made up comment then, in an attack like this people wouldn't be missing days later, even in explosions bodies are identified rather quickly.

Uriel · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:39

Robbo said:
Did they? If not then they are no better.

Interestingly I'm aware of at least 2 Church of England priests that have stated (via social media) they will give the Manchester bomber (and presumably by extension the London attackers) a funeral if Muslims refuse to do it.

I can't help but find the prospect slightly perversely satisfying.

b0redj0rd · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:48

http://news.sky.com/story/third-london-attacker-named-as-youssef-zaghba-10905940

3rd attacker named. Moroccan/Italian, prevented from entering Syria but was free to enter the UK (according to the initial Sky report which now seems to have been removed).

CREATIVE!11 · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:54

I learnt yesterday one of the knife attackers was on a channel 4 documentary I watched called Jihadis Next Door.

So when are we going to hit a point when that type of behaviour is not tolerated? cause until we do these attacks will continue.

Zatoichi.uK · 6 Jun 2017 at 11:57

CREATIVE!11 said:
I learnt yesterday one of the knife attackers was on a channel 4 documentary I watched called Jihadis Next Door.

So when are we going to hit a point when that type of behaviour is not tolerated? cause until we do these attacks will continue.

Yep been mentioned a few times. We must be a laughing stock to promote this on Channel 4 and yet still let people like this roam the streets unchallenged.

scorza · 6 Jun 2017 at 12:02

CREATIVE!11 said:
I learnt yesterday one of the knife attackers was on a channel 4 documentary I watched called Jihadis Next Door.

So when are we going to hit a point when that type of behaviour is not tolerated? cause until we do these attacks will continue.

What exactly do you think we should have done differently? Just asking because you seem like the sort of person who would scream "police state" if he'd been arrested for anything he said/did in that documentary.

Robbo · 6 Jun 2017 at 12:04

One thing I really don't like - you can tell the press are loving this. Dragging every detail of the terrorists lives out into the open, plastering their faces everywhere. Making them all out to be some sort of evil martyr, which is what they wanted (and what ISIS want).

It's a joke.

Sharlaw · 6 Jun 2017 at 12:06

Six6siX said:
For those who participated in the minutes silence, can you please explain what your reason for doing so was?

Can you explain how it is any different to changing your profile picture on Facebook? How is this different to any other 'passive' method of support for victims and/or condemnation of terrorists?

Some people who appear to dismiss the latter quite happily participate in the former.

I didn't stand in the road or publicly announce my intention to take part in the silence. I left my desk, found a quite space to myself and spent a moment reflecting on the victims and the loss to their families and the world at large.
This isn't to say I haven't taken time to do so already, but it behoves us to remember those who have passed.

Changing a pic on FB or copying and pasting a status update takes little time, and is more a announcement to the world of your thoughts on the matter at hand.
To take a minutes silence is a personal moment of reflection on what it means to you, and has nothing to do with anyone else.