London Bridge Incident

so hang on cars kill about 2,000 people in the uk a year, you got used to that, buit something that kills less than 100 you want to fundamentally change our way of life for the worse?

I understand the rationale behind this approach, but it falls prey to false equivalence. "Cars" don't kill for the most part, and efforts are taken to reduce the numbers of fatalities caused by road accidents. One only need look at the number of people killed by traffic collisions on the road for this. Seat belts, drivers licences, self-driving technology etc. are all methods implemented (or that could be implemented) to reduce this number. If one proposes that restricting Wahhabist preachers would serve to reduce the likelihood of terror events then it should not immediately be dismissed as a proposal because "more people die of X, so why bother?". In an academic sense, it boils down to a problem of the value of risk minimization.

In the process of minimizing risk, one should not ignore potential black swan events (such as terrorist attacks) as being of orders of magnitude lower probability and thus not worth addressing. Certainly this is not the approach one would take in the process industries, for example, where probability of risk must be conflated with the background population to generate the likelihood of (or expected value of) impact.

I don't understand why terrorism should be any different. Perhaps living in a large city ("part and parcel") makes one more aware of the risk, as now the background population of events is the one directly relevant to my locale. When I hear of terrorist incidents occurring in places that I visit on a regular basis, it certainly makes me more aware of the issue, even if the probability of it occurring to me is very small.
 
Rounding people up and deporting them is a short term solution that fans the flames of longer term issues.

"Don't you see? Your cousin was only just talking to the preacher, he did nothing wrong. Now he is in prison. The British government is evil, and must be stopped. Do what you have to."

Isn't this an extremely easy scenario to imagine?

Someone wrote up a several step plan a few pages back. Key points are that we must engage with those that feel we are the enemy and make them realise we are all in this together. Stop letting vulnerable people become targets, not through force to stop messages, but through showing them they have better options.

And before people say anything, of course I'm not advocating for illegal hate speeches to go on unpunished. But going beyond that is making things even worse than it is.

I'm saying this here and now. Some of the comments here, while not being a direct main cause, can have the potential to drive people to do bad things.
 
Its a troll argument you are perpetuating ....as you well know.
Heres why. We have very legitimate and constantly updated restrictions and controls on things like alcohol, cigarettes, sugar, car and road safety etc etc etc. Its called Health and Safety legislation. So comparing deaths from something like cars to terrorism is utterly ridiculous. There are millions of road users all using UK roads all the time. The deaths from such accidents is miniscule to the ratio of actual road users.

Now if the UK had millions of terrorists all attempting to commit terrorist acts in the same numbers and ratio as cars:road deaths then you might have a point.

So thats why we havent banned cars :p


ok great so why haven't we made automatic breaking systems mandatory?

but seriously im sorry if it makes a troll or cold hearted but i really think that its an insane response to 30 deaths to go to

1) lock people up based on their religion
2) punish peoples parents/families if they commit a terror act
3) lock up thousands of people based on them being on the watch list.


^ now if you think those are reasonable and sensible measure in response to terrorist attacks in the uk killing about 100 people in the last decade, then surely you must think things that kill thousands per year should be so far up the priorities list that we should be haveing major programs to tackle the others?
 
its because funding is a zero sum game.,

do you stop possibly 1-30 deaths a hyear by spending 10 billion on anti terror campaigns like internment etc or do you stop say 12,000 deaths by investing in better medical training and practices?

I can't disagree with the details of what your saying and implying. But it's just a conversation for another day, surely.
 
Cancelling the election would be a ridiculous capitulation to terrorism.
The Daily Heil calling for it is disgraceful and shows their degusting nature.

they are reporting some social media users saying its should be cancelled hardly the same as you suggest.
 
Sad news and incredible response from the police you have to give it to them unfortunately people have died but to respond within 8 minutes has saved many more lives.

But I will say it again why was there no bollards put up on the bridge following the first attack I know people will say well they will just use another bridge but it dosnt take away from the fact they should be in place on that bridge.
 
Ahh ok,

Don't worry guys as we can't solve all crime in the UK so don't worry.

Until we can stop all types of murder don't worry about terrorism or it's causes. Not like all those acts were caused by separate persons.

are you saying all the terrorism and its causes in the uk are the same?

cause they really really arent.

but hey go on whats your "action"?
 
Sad news and incredible response from the police you have to give it to them unfortunately people have died but to respond within 8 minutes has saved many more lives.

But I will say it again why was there no bollards put up on the bridge following the first attack I know people will say well they will just use another bridge but it dosnt take away from the fact they should be in place on that bridge.

Yes well pointed out ! This should be mandatory
 
I can't disagree with the details of what your saying and implying. But it's just a conversation for another day, surely.


i dunno so far the conversation left to itself is vigilante attacks and the beginnings of collective punishment?


both of which are far more horrific than terrorism at its level int his country.
 
First time I have seen Cressida Dick make a live statement, and it was like watching a toddler stutteringly read their list to Santa aloud. Obviously chosen more for political correctness than for her dynamism and presence. The BBC then followed her with some outrageous old queen having his gushing moment of fame in the camera lens. No wonder we can't take the fight to the Islamic State, they must crease themselves watching this stuff.

EDIT, the PC brigade here seem to make it impossible to cite the real name of the Metropolitan Police Commissionaire, which kind of says it all to me really......
 
are you saying all the terrorism and its causes in the uk are the same?

cause they really really arent.

but hey go on whats your "action"?

99.9% of terrorism in the world these days is from islamic extremists. At least it is on face value when you see the news these days.
 
Sad news and incredible response from the police you have to give it to them unfortunately people have died but to respond within 8 minutes has saved many more lives.

But I will say it again why was there no bollards put up on the bridge following the first attack I know people will say well they will just use another bridge but it dosnt take away from the fact they should be in place on that bridge.


possibly because it may take quite a lot of engineering work to figure out how to put up barriers that can take the impact of a car/truck without permanently damaging the bridge?
 
First time I have seen Cressida **** make a live statement, and it was like watching a toddler stutteringly read their list to Santa aloud. Obviously chosen more for political correctness than for her dynamism and presence. The BBC then followed her with some outrageous old queen having his gushing moment of fame in the camera lens. No wonder we can't take the fight to the Islamic State, they must crease themselves watching this stuff.

Yeah them cutting edge missiles and bombs blowing people up every day must make them think we are soooo weak :rolleyes:


I seriously despair at this, no wonder we are in the mess we are in. We want to fight this evil by overwhelming it with rose petals and hugs.

How has bombing them into submission for the last couple of decades been going ???
 
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