London cyclists "too white, male and middle aged" and this is a problem.

[Nasher]

doesnt india have a lot of cyclists and motorbikes?

hes looking at you bro

helmets aren't mandatory yet?

I thought in most cycling accidents that result in death a helmet wouldn't make a difference anyway?

You can legally ride a motorbike without a helmet if you wear a turban in the UK.

A cycle helmet will help if you knock yourself off by hitting a curb or something, but a lightweight piece of polystyrene and plastic is not going protect you against much more. You need a proper crash helmet if you actually want protection against traffic.

 

[V F]

OMG, everybody stop posting, it's from 3 weeks ago and you know the rules.

Anyway, here in Stoke I cycle commute every day and I've only ever seen 1 woman cyclist and never seen a black person in 6 years.
We have a major problem.

It still didn't answer the question.

 

[FoxEye]

Here's another question for the room.

If, on average, it takes £100 govt spending to get a non-BAME male to take up cycling, and £175 to get a BAME/woman cycling, what should we do?

Get more people cycling or get more BAME/women cycling?

Honest question.

 

[arknor]

Here's another question for the room.

If, on average, it takes £100 govt spending to get a non-BAME male to take up cycling, and £175 to get a BAME/woman cycling, what should we do?

Get more people cycling or get more BAME/women cycling?

Honest question.

encourage students to take up cycling by providing secure places for their bikes to be parked.
provide real cycle routes that arent just a line painted down the side of a street or a sign with a picture of a bicyle on it and a route number.

they can go all out widening roads for a bus route, they can't be bothered to do anything but get a few signs and a bit of paint out when they try to encourage cyclists

city centres + cycling = awful
outside of city centres if you spend a lot of time on google maps you can find a pretty decent route where you won't be mingling with tons of steel on a busy road

 

[FoxEye]

encourage students to take up cycling by providing secure places for their bikes to be parked.
provide real cycle routes that arent just a line painted down the side of a street or a sign with a picture of a bicyle on it and a route number.

they can go all out widening roads for a bus route, they can't be bothered to do anything but get a few signs and a bit of paint out when they try to encourage cyclists

city centres + cycling = awful
outside of city centres if you spend a lot of time on google maps you can find a pretty decent route where you won't be mingling with tons of steel on a busy road

I'm completely in favour of making cycling a better/safe/viable for all. Absolutely. I'm a cyclist myself (or was some years ago )

What baffles me is when people start saying, "Cycling needs more diversity". Because in this context we're not talking about elite sport, but rather people getting on a bike to get from A to B. I really don't see any particular barriers that would prevent me cycling if I was a black woman. Nothing specific to cycling. Same as I wouldn't be disadvantaged trying to change the channel on the TV if I was an asian woman. The remote control is just as usable by black woman as middle aged white men.

Let's face it, the bike doesn't care what colour the rider is; neither does the road, the road markings, the traffic lights, the drivers trying to knock you off, the phone-zombies crossing without looking, or the pigeons dive bombing you. None of them care if you're black or white.

The idea that commute cycling/leisure cycling is inherently biased towards white males is lol-worthy.

 

[explicit4u]

I'm completely in favour of making cycling a better/safe/viable for all. Absolutely. I'm a cyclist myself (or was some years ago )

What baffles me is when people start saying, "Cycling needs more diversity". Because in this context we're not talking about elite sport, but rather people getting on a bike to get from A to B. I really don't see any particular barriers that would prevent me cycling if I was a black woman. Nothing specific to cycling. Same as I wouldn't be disadvantaged trying to change the channel on the TV if I was an asian woman. The remote control is just as usable by black woman as middle aged white men.

Let's face it, the bike doesn't care what colour the rider is; neither does the road, the road markings, the traffic lights, the drivers trying to knock you off, the phone-zombies crossing without looking, or the pigeons dive bombing you. None of them care if you're black or white.

The idea that commute cycling/leisure cycling is inherently biased towards white males is lol-worthy.

Good thing no one thinks/is saying that then isn't it?

A barrier could be something as simple as not knowing how to ride a bike, or not growing up in a culture where bikes are common.

Having anything dominated by one 'type' of person makes it a lot less likely for people who aren't that type to do it. I don't know why but that's just the way a lot of people think. Representation matters and getting more diversity in cycling will encourage more people who wouldn't typically cycle to do so.

 

[Chris Wilson]

In what cultures are bicycles uncommon?

 

[antijoke]

Good thing no one thinks/is saying that then isn't it?

A barrier could be something as simple as not knowing how to ride a bike, or not growing up in a culture where bikes are common.

Having anything dominated by one 'type' of person makes it a lot less likely for people who aren't that type to do it. I don't know why but that's just the way a lot of people think. Representation matters and getting more diversity in cycling will encourage more people who wouldn't typically cycle to do so.

So you think a POC see's white people on bikes and says "Nope, that's way to white for me!"?

 

[Nasher]

Good thing no one thinks/is saying that then isn't it?

A barrier could be something as simple as not knowing how to ride a bike, or not growing up in a culture where bikes are common.

Having anything dominated by one 'type' of person makes it a lot less likely for people who aren't that type to do it. I don't know why but that's just the way a lot of people think. Representation matters and getting more diversity in cycling will encourage more people who wouldn't typically cycle to do so.

That and the UK being about 80% white might have something to do with it

BAME cyclists making up "just 15%" seems about right to me, that is in-line with the country's demographics. But that makes logical so it's allowed as an explanation.

 

[explicit4u]

That and the UK being about 80% white might have something to do with it

BAME cyclists making up "just 15%" seems about right to me, that is in-line with the country's demographics. But that makes logical so it's allowed as an explanation.

Doesn't apply to London though, which is what this discussion is about.

So you think a POC see's white people on bikes and says "Nope, that's way to white for me!"?

No but it always helps to have people that look like you doing something and doing it well. Without diversity in certain areas people stigmatise and talk themselves out of opportunities.

A good example is women in STEM or the tech industry, so many talk themselves out of studying these subjects or entering the tech industry because they have (sometimes correct) preconceptions of what it's like to be in those fields (bro culture, it's for for boys, sexual harassment etc.). That's why they have 'easy access' routes for women to take to get into these fields, the more women take advantage of them the more women you start to see in the industry and the idea of a female physicist or whatever becomes normalised.

It's not a coincidence that films like Wonder Woman saw record numbers of women for a superhero action movie or Black Panther had an unusually black audience. People, especially POC/women/LGBT+, get inspired by seeing people that look like them doing things you don't typically see them doing.

 

[Efour]

In what cultures are bicycles uncommon?

British

 

[dowie]

Having anything dominated by one 'type' of person makes it a lot less likely for people who aren't that type to do it. I don't know why but that's just the way a lot of people think. Representation matters and getting more diversity in cycling will encourage more people who wouldn't typically cycle to do so.

Is there evidence for that?

I mean think of all the musical influences to come from say African Americans, the fact they were black didn't stop loads of white people from being inspired by that stuff.

I don't think the nearly all black line up in say sprint events at the Olympics has put people off, nor has say the disproportionate representation in the likes of the NBA or the NFL.

I can assume that perhaps it is less likely for a working class black kid (or indeed a working class kid from any background) to take up say ballet or training to become an opera singer etc.. but I'd suspect that there is more than just a lack of representation at play there.

The fact that well known top Entrepreneurs are often white doesn't seem to stop African Americans from trying to set up businesses, they actually do so at a greater rate proportionally AFAIK, they're also more optimistic and experience a higher failure rate but the lack of success is not for lack of trying but perhaps down to other initial hurdles. Lack of representation doesn't seem to put people off from participating though.

 

[Dis86]

I'm not quite clear how a lack of black pro cyclists is stopping Mary getting in her bike to go to work.

 

[arknor]

British

was thinking the same thing.

if these BAME people don't want to cycle it's because the whites are the only ones crazy enough to on British streets.

I bet you get minorities coming over to study that are used to cycling in their own countries, see britains streets and think no way lol.....

theres no where safe to store a bike even if you felt comfortable enough to ride one.
chaining up a bike to a pole in a city centre or street somewhere is about the same as chaining a few hundred quid up to a lamp post.

 

[Nasher]

If you buy an expensive bike it's almost guaranteed to get stolen if you leave it public, a lock won't stop people.

Even Boris bikes sometimes turn up in other countries

 

[Efour]

Lived in London 30 years. Wouldn't have cycled if you bought me a bike and paid me.

Live here now and cycle 3 times a week.
British attitude to cyclists is sick. Cars Vs bikes, some bizarre war.

 

[Monkeynut]

You can legally ride a motorbike without a helmet if you wear a turban in the UK.

A cycle helmet will help if you knock yourself off by hitting a curb or something, but a lightweight piece of polystyrene and plastic is not going protect you against much more. You need a proper crash helmet if you actually want protection against traffic.

What about Trotter's Crash Turbans?

 

[SquirrelMadness]

A good example is women in STEM or the tech industry, so many talk themselves out of studying these subjects or entering the tech industry because they have (sometimes correct) preconceptions of what it's like to be in those fields (bro culture, it's for for boys, sexual harassment etc.). That's why they have 'easy access' routes for women to take to get into these fields, the more women take advantage of them the more women you start to see in the industry and the idea of a female physicist or whatever becomes normalised.

It's not a coincidence that films like Wonder Woman saw record numbers of women for a superhero action movie or Black Panther had an unusually black audience. People, especially POC/women/LGBT+, get inspired by seeing people that look like them doing things you don't typically see them doing.

You are insanely ignorant of biology if you think the reason there are less women in STEM is to do with them talking themselves out of it because of "bro culture" etc.

This is what happens when you encourage or force women to participate in a male-dominated hobby:

And the exact same results occur when women are pushed into STEM based occupations when their natural drive to enter these fields is nowhere near as strong as the competition's.

People have the ability to find their own routes in life, with only minimal influence of direction needed (mostly awareness of existence). So long as their are no barriers preventing them from entering (and there aren't).

So back on topic, since cycling is an area available to everyone, almost all BAME/women who feel naturally compelled to participate in this area would have already entered. Any money spent by the gov't to try and get not-so-interested members of these communities participating will be a huge waste.

 

[Nasher]

How to crash your way to victory

 

[Yadda]

You are insanely ignorant of biology if you think the reason there are less women in STEM is to do with them talking themselves out of it because of "bro culture" etc.

This is what happens when you encourage or force women to participate in a male-dominated hobby:

And the exact same results occur when women are pushed into STEM based occupations when their natural drive to enter these fields is nowhere near as strong as the competition's.

People have the ability to find their own routes in life, with only minimal influence of direction needed (mostly awareness of existence). So long as their are no barriers preventing them from entering (and there aren't).

So back on topic, since cycling is an area available to everyone, almost all BAME/women who feel naturally compelled to participate in this area would have already entered. Any money spent by the gov't to try and get not-so-interested members of these communities participating will be a huge waste.

Rumour has it that some of them are pretty good at it, once they've had a decent amount of practice.

Here's one: Ashley Fiolek.

I'd wager that she'd easily whoop every one of us here on dirt on 2 wheels.

Hopefully she'll inspire more girls to take up the sport.