Looking for some advice on a home cinema setup

[hornetstinger]

Thank you, what about this one?:

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 5.1 Home Cinema Speaker Package, Black at AV.com

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 5.1 Home Cinema Speaker Package, Black at AV.com

www.av.com

Then I'd need an AVR for that setup?

It's over double what I was expecting to spend. I think it's overkill to be honest. I didn't realise it was all so expensive, bit of a bummer really.

With my puny budget of £500 would I just have to settle for a 2.1 setup with an amp/avr and then expand it later?

Yes that's a good one yes you'll need a avr.

How about just get something cheap, second hand Yamaha AVR, even if you just use it for a year or two, £50

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"No the projector is 4k/60hz only. So no need for that."

ah that bumps price up, so you need HDMI 2.0. If it were 1080p then that £50 AVR above will do.

 

[Brumboy]

Yes that's a good one yes you'll need a avr.

How about just get something cheap, second hand Yamaha AVR, even if you just use it for a year or two, £50

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"No the projector is 4k/60hz only. So no need for that."

ah that bumps price up, so you need HDMI 2.0. If it were 1080p then that £50 AVR above will do.

Alright then, I'll have to think a lot more about this it looks like. It does seem like 5.1 is out of the question though, which is fine although I was getting excited as the prospect of experiencing surround sound at home!

Maybe I will just go for the combination you initially suggested with the Diamond speakers and the WiiM AMP. If I did that - could I buy another pair of the Diamond speakers and add them to the setup? And then sell the WiiM AMP and buy one that supports 5.1. Or is there a budget friendly amp that supports 5.1 that I could buy now instead?

Also the size of the speakers are all a lot larger than I expected. I don't suppose there's some that are a lot smaller but still pack a decent punch?

 

[hornetstinger]

av forums is probably best safest place, have a look here

Forum list

Home Entertainment resource for home cinema, movies, games and gadgets news, reviews, articles and forums

www.avforums.com

Buying second hand is generally fine, most of my stuff is second hand- I'd never have bought some of the gear at the new price (top of the range models)

You'll need things like speaker cable, buy a reel, 2.5mm3, banana plugs, hdmi cables, RCA stereo, subwoofer RCA,optical/coaxial as needed

AVR's and subs can be more risky, they have electronics and higher chance to fail. Speakers can last decades, if they're treated right.

 

[hornetstinger]

Alright then, I'll have to think a lot more about this it looks like. It does seem like 5.1 is out of the question though, which is fine although I was getting excited as the prospect of experiencing surround sound at home!

Maybe I will just go for the combination you initially suggested with the Diamond speakers and the WiiM AMP. If I did that - could I buy another pair of the Diamond speakers and add them to the setup? And then sell the WiiM AMP and buy one that supports 5.1. Or is there a budget friendly amp that supports 5.1 that I could buy now instead?

Also the size of the speakers are all a lot larger than I expected. I don't suppose there's some that are a lot smaller but still pack a decent punch?

If you bought the Wiim amp, it will only support stereo speakers and a subwoofer, you can't have it 4.1 or anything like that. yes you can sell the wiim amp, or the speakers as needed, but it would just make sense to re-use them, ie move the wiim to bedroom etc, buy a AVR, buy another pair of 9.1 for rears, center, sub etc.

AVR's have gone up unfortunately, and since you want 4K, 60hz, then means a HDMI 2.0 spec AVR, so it would have to be relatively new. Any new AVR from shops will be at least that, or HDMI 2.1

I have a old Yamaha 1080p AVR, and they're available cheap £100 second hand now,as 1080p is "out of date"

Generally you want speakers to be of a certain size. Small speakers have limited bass response, output, sensitivity. For music I'd recommend those Diamond 9.1. The Diamond 9.0 are good, but for main speakers they're too small. In a small room, with a music system you can get away without a sub.

I use speakers that have 4.5" to 6.5" midrange, and 8" bass drivers, I'd say 4.5" is too small. 5.25" is my minimum recommendation, 6.5" ideal. You can use smaller speakers for rears and atmos heights, but the L/R I wouldn't use tiny little ones.

Sensitivity means how loud the speaker is with one watt of power. Smaller speakers produce less output, compared to bigger ones, so you need a more powerful AVR, or you have to drive your amp harder. That increases the cost. For example my little speakers need 2x-3x the power of the big ones as they're lower in sensitivity.

 

[Brumboy]

av forums is probably best safest place, have a look here

Forum list

Home Entertainment resource for home cinema, movies, games and gadgets news, reviews, articles and forums

www.avforums.com

Buying second hand is generally fine, most of my stuff is second hand- I'd never have bought some of the gear at the new price (top of the range models)

You'll need things like speaker cable, buy a reel, 2.5mm3, banana plugs, hdmi cables, RCA stereo, subwoofer RCA,optical/coaxial as needed

AVR's and subs can be more risky, they have electronics and higher chance to fail. Speakers can last decades, if they're treated right.

Interesting.

Thank you, it's like going into a rabbit hole now..learning more and more. My head is hurting!

Yeah my dad has speakers that are older than me (over 30..) that he uses almost daily.

Now I'm interested to see your home cinema setup

 

[hornetstinger]

Another brand are Q acoustics. Q and Wharfedale will have warmer/natural sound. Some other brands like Focal, Dali and Klipsch will be brighter, possibly hard on the ears.

Q Acoustics 3020i Cinema Pack

The Q Acoustics 3020i 5.1 Cinema Pack combines the very best of the new 3000i Series to deliver a stunning, compact home cinema system ensuring you hear every detail at its very best from your favourite movies and music.

petertyson.co.uk

I wouldn't recommend that sub though, they're quite poor and unreliable. They have a 3010i pack with smaller fronts, but I'd recommend the 3020i instead. Bigger driver, bit more efficient, will have more impact. Don't forget stands as well.

There are hundreds of brands, so if you go cranage get and idea. They'll be mix of the major brands like Kef, etc, but there will be many lesser brands that even I didn't hear of.

 

[Brumboy]

If you bought the Wiim amp, it will only support stereo speakers and a subwoofer, you can't have it 4.1 or anything like that. yes you can sell the wiim amp, or the speakers as needed, but it would just make sense to re-use them, ie move the wiim to bedroom etc, buy a AVR, buy another pair of 9.1 for rears, center, sub etc.

AVR's have gone up unfortunately, and since you want 4K, 60hz, then means a HDMI 2.0 spec AVR, so it would have to be relatively new. Any new AVR from shops will be at least that, or HDMI 2.1

I have a old Yamaha 1080p AVR, and they're available cheap £100 second hand now,as 1080p is "out of date"

Generally you want speakers to be of a certain size. Small speakers have limited bass response, output, sensitivity. For music I'd recommend those Diamond 9.1. The Diamond 9.0 are good, but for main speakers they're too small. In a small room, with a music system you can get away without a sub.

I use speakers that have 4.5" to 6.5" midrange, and 8" bass drivers, I'd say 4.5" is too small. 5.25" is my minimum recommendation, 6.5" ideal. You can use smaller speakers for rears and atmos heights, but the L/R I wouldn't use tiny little ones.

Sensitivity means how loud the speaker is with one watt of power. Smaller speakers produce less output, compared to bigger ones, so you need a more powerful AVR, or you have to drive your amp harder. That increases the cost. For example my little speakers need 2x-3x the power of the big ones as they're lower in sensitivity.

Alright that all makes sense actually. Lots of combinations possible it seems.

Ah right that's a bummer. Better start saving up, maybe Santa will help me out!

Interesting I did not know that - lots to think about.

Thank you for explaining all this, massive help. I will do additional research as well.

But the 2.1 setup sounds like a good middle ground:

WiiM Amp, Space Grey & Wharfedale Diamond 9.1, Black Hi-Fi Bundle at AV.com

WiiM Amp, Space Grey & Wharfedale Diamond 9.1, Black Hi-Fi Bundle at AV.com

www.av.com

WiiM Amp Stereo Hi-Fi System Builder at AV.com

WiiM Amp Stereo Hi-Fi System Builder at AV.com

www.av.com

Not sure what the difference is between the above two though. Also would this amp be ok for my projector as I watch a lot of 4k content and you mentioned that 60hz can cause issues with some amps?

And you're saying it is possible to connect the FireStick to the amp via BT and that would work?

 

[Brumboy]

Another brand are Q acoustics. Q and Wharfedale will have warmer/natural sound. Some other brands like Focal, Dali and Klipsch will be brighter, possibly hard on the ears.

Q Acoustics 3020i Cinema Pack

The Q Acoustics 3020i 5.1 Cinema Pack combines the very best of the new 3000i Series to deliver a stunning, compact home cinema system ensuring you hear every detail at its very best from your favourite movies and music.

petertyson.co.uk

I wouldn't recommend that sub though, they're quite poor and unreliable. They have a 3010i pack with smaller fronts, but I'd recommend the 3020i instead. Bigger driver, bit more efficient, will have more impact. Don't forget stands as well.

There are hundreds of brands, so if you go cranage get and idea. They'll be mix of the major brands like Kef, etc, but there will be many lesser brands that even I didn't hear of.

That is way over my budget sorry! Appreciate the links though. I need a pay rise to afford all this

 

[hornetstinger]

How many video sources do you have? If you have several, then might need a AVR. Depends on how many on TV/projector, if you route sources to the display, then back, or need a AVR so route all devices through that then onto projector.

ie I have a BD player, Kodi video player, and audio streamer into my av pre amp.

You can spend a lot of money

Perlisten Audio S-Series Home Cinema Speaker Review

Review of Perlisten Audio's S-Series home cinema speaker system here consisting of two S7t towers, an S7c centre, two S4s surrounds and an D215s subwoofer

www.avforums.com

That excludes a AVR, so would be looking at another £2000 or so for a good one or better.

 

[Brumboy]

How many video sources do you have? If you have several, then might need a AVR. Depends on how many on TV/projector, if you route sources to the display, then back, or need a AVR so route all devices through that then onto projector.

ie I have a BD player, Kodi video player, and audio streamer into my av pre amp.

You can spend a lot of money

Perlisten Audio S-Series Home Cinema Speaker Review

Review of Perlisten Audio's S-Series home cinema speaker system here consisting of two S7t towers, an S7c centre, two S4s surrounds and an D215s subwoofer

www.avforums.com

That excludes a AVR, so would be looking at another £2000 or so for a good one or better.

This is all for the projector. I do sometimes use my Xbox & PC with the projector. So would I be better off connecting the projector to the amp with an optical. Then when I connect the Xbox/PC to the projector via HDMI the sound will all come out of the speakers right?

 

[hornetstinger]

I'd get a AVR then. Connect all sources to the AVR. Then use a long HDMI cable from the AVR output into the projector.

Just easier that way. Video and audio routing, sources and AVR on racking on front wall.

That'll allow you add sources as needed and not mess with the limited I/O on the projector.

 

[Brumboy]

I'd get a AVR then. Connect all sources to the AVR. Then use a long HDMI cable from the AVR output into the projector.

Just easier that way. Video and audio routing, sources and AVR on racking on front wall.

That'll allow you add sources as needed and not mess with the limited I/O on the projector.

I've connected my xbox and PC to the projector with active HDMI cables for years now so I honestly don't mind doing it. So would I still be able to use the speaker setup that way? (connecting directly to the projector instead of an avr).

 

[hornetstinger]

Yes. But you would lose

Dolby HD audio
DTS HD Audio
Atmos
DTS X

As optical from the projector at best will be standard Dolby Digital/ DTS 5.1, like what you get with DVD's. Any enhanced audio from BD's will be lost.

 

[hornetstinger]

Best to know what your projector is

 

[Brumboy]

Yes. But you would lose

Dolby HD audio
DTS HD Audio
Atmos
DTS X

As optical from the projector at best will be standard Dolby Digital/ DTS 5.1, like what you get with DVD's. Any enhanced audio from BD's will be lost.

Oh damn okay! That sucks. The projector is a Benq W2710. Blimey this is turning into a major project. Still a bit mind blown at it all to be honest haha.

 

[hornetstinger]

That projector has eARC

ARC passes DVD type audio
E-ARC passed HD BD type audio

if you use Wiim amp, it'll work, but need to find out what codec formats that supports. It'll be PCM, but whether bitstream will work I don't know. In the projector you'll have to set suitable outputs on the ARC output.

A AVR will support and decode them all.

 

[hornetstinger]

Also if you want atmos channels, you'll need something like this

https://www.denon.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-denon_northamerica_shared/default/dwc4919815/downloads/avr-x1700h-info-sheet-en.pdf

I believe that can support 7.2.2 or 5.2.2 Plus it supports two subwoofers (and independent also rather than just identical), rather than just one.

I think long term it's better to get a AVR. Just add speakers and sub as needed, it has all HDMI 2.1 spec inputs, E-ARC, hdmi out.

Also consider if you want dual HDMI out, ie one to TV, another to projector, is so you'll need denon 2700

AVR-X2700H DAB - 7.2 Ch. 150W 8K AV Receiver with HEOS® Built-in and DAB+ | Denon - UK

Denon

www.denon.com

 

[Brumboy]

That projector has eARC

ARC passes DVD type audio
E-ARC passed HD BD type audio

if you use Wiim amp, it'll work, but need to find out what codec formats that supports. It'll be PCM, but whether bitstream will work I don't know. In the projector you'll have to set suitable outputs on the ARC output.

A AVR will support and decode them all.

Thanks for checking that. I mean it's not a problem if some things don't work perfectly. I'm looking for a setup that covers 80% of what I need.

I do like the WiiM amp though. Pair that with the Diamonds and I think it could be a very nice beginner setup with opportunity to expand in the future (replacing the WiiM amp).

But how do I connect my Xbox/PC to the WiiM amp and then connect that to the projector to transmit video as there's only one HDMI?

 

[Brumboy]

Also if you want atmos channels, you'll need something like this

https://www.denon.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-denon_northamerica_shared/default/dwc4919815/downloads/avr-x1700h-info-sheet-en.pdf

I believe that can support 7.2.2 or 5.2.2 Plus it supports two subwoofers (and independent also rather than just identical), rather than just one.

I think long term it's better to get a AVR. Just add speakers and sub as needed, it has all HDMI 2.1 spec inputs, E-ARC, hdmi out.

Also consider if you want dual HDMI out, ie one to TV, another to projector, is so you'll need denon 2700

AVR-X2700H DAB - 7.2 Ch. 150W 8K AV Receiver with HEOS® Built-in and DAB+ | Denon - UK

Denon

www.denon.com

Way over budget mate!

Forget the atmos it's way too much money.

Denon AVR-S660H (Black)

Shop for Denon AVR-S660H (Black) AV Receiver with Richer Sounds for expert advice and lowest prices guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

This is the one you linked before, would this be a good avr then if I choose to spend extra and skip the WiiM amp?

 

[hornetstinger]

Thanks for checking that. I mean it's not a problem if some things don't work perfectly. I'm looking for a setup that covers 80% of what I need.

I do like the WiiM amp though. Pair that with the Diamonds and I think it could be a very nice beginner setup with opportunity to expand in the future (replacing the WiiM amp).

But how do I connect my Xbox/PC to the WiiM amp and then connect that to the projector to transmit video as there's only one HDMI?

That's the problem you would have to connect all devices to the projector, then projector E-ARC into the Wiim.

Or use a switch box, but I'm not sure if that will cause an issue, you'd need one with two HDMI outs? Say sources into HDMI box, then HDMI 1 out into projector, then HDMI 2 out into Wiim amp. I don't know if that has issues with HDCP, sync, E-ARC etc