Loot boxes FINALLY being investigated by UK Government

The big problem the government has if it bans loot boxes it opens a huge can of worms because game developers will just say things like Pokémon cards are gambling and other card games so will we have to ban any form of game that gives you a random chance of getting a certain item I do think loot boxes need some for of regulations maybe make them cosmetic only etc have more options to get the rewards apart from loot boxes
 
pitkin said:
But at least said stickers can't look at what you already have and base what they give you on that. Can we trust loot boxes not to do that?
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It depends on the game.

Apex legends you will never get the same item twice.

Csgo its completely random.

Some games have gotten it right others like fifa, nba, basically EA in house games and a few others have gotten it wrong.

Fortnite is cosmetics only. Children need to be educated. That is the main issue. I know kids who play it. One doesn't buy any skins but his parents explain everything to them and he's well above average when it comes to behaviour, etc. I know another who begs for skins and basically is just left to his own devices and is completely spoilt. He is therefore not being educated on why he cannot have them or even explained to him what a waste of money they are.

Parents are also to blame here but so are some game developers. Especially pay to win developers more than others.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
It depends on the game.
Parents are also to blame here but so are some game developers. Especially pay to win developers more than others.
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The problem is that game developers no longer just build games to have fun, they use psychologists to help them build mechanisms into the game that generate that dopamine hit that builds addiction. Games like Fortnite are designed so that players (addicts) get their tiny and frequent dopamine hit, which gives them a mini high. Skins, loot boxes etc are just an extension of this addictive behavior in that they act in a similar way and in some ways are more addictive as they can be purchased at any time, the craving or itch needs to be scratched.

Children's and juvenile brains are far more receptive to dopamine / reward behavior and game developers and their teams of psychologists are exploiting this.

So yes parents should be more aware of their children's activities but you cannot blame them for not understanding the psycho-mechanics behind the complex and intricate mechanisms that game developers use, to deliberately drive addictive behaviours, which they then exploit using pay-to-win / skins / loot box mechanisms to further fuel this addictive behaviour and then monetize the addiction.

I have worked with clinical psychologists and psychiatrists and game developers looking at addictive behavior in gaming. I have presented at medical conferences and worked with children's services on clinical addiction in video games, particularly in juveniles. I do not have a medical background, but have a long history of gaming and gaming addiction, which is how I was introduced to the teams that I worked with. The shock was learning how much gaming companies deliberately design their gaming mechanism to fuel juvenile addiction. In many ways games like this are very little different, addiction wise, to any other form of gambling or substance addiction, the end result is the same, the generation of chemical stimulants or suppressants within the brain that lead to addictive behaviours.

That is why so many kids have been reported as being moody, irritable, aggressive or even violent when parents have tried to limit their access to games like Fortnite and its precursors to a lesser degree, like COD etc. These are withdrawal symptoms similar to opiod addictions (to a lesser degree).

So as much as I agree with the Government looking at Loot boxes, they should actually spend more time looking at underlying mechanisms within certain games to better understand how that game is 'actually' designed to produce an emotional response trigger within its target audience. Very few gaming companies will admit to doing this, they try and keep it very quiet as it would generate some pretty negative publicity, but the practice definitely exists - the proof can be seen in the reported large scale behavioural changes of a specific audience of a certain type of game.
 
SimonR said:
The problem is that game developers no longer just build games to have fun, they use psychologists to help them build mechanisms into the game that generate that dopamine hit that builds addiction. Games like Fortnite are designed so that players (addicts) get their tiny and frequent dopamine hit, which gives them a mini high. Skins, loot boxes etc are just an extension of this addictive behavior in that they act in a similar way and in some ways are more addictive as they can be purchased at any time, the craving or itch needs to be scratched.

Children's and juvenile brains are far more receptive to dopamine / reward behavior and game developers and their teams of psychologists are exploiting this.

So yes parents should be more aware of their children's activities but you cannot blame them for not understanding the psycho-mechanics behind the complex and intricate mechanisms that game developers use, to deliberately drive addictive behaviours, which they then exploit using pay-to-win / skins / loot box mechanisms to further fuel this addictive behaviour and then monetize the addiction.

I have worked with clinical psychologists and psychiatrists and game developers looking at addictive behavior in gaming. I have presented at medical conferences and worked with children's services on clinical addiction in video games, particularly in juveniles. I do not have a medical background, but have a long history of gaming and gaming addiction, which is how I was introduced to the teams that I worked with. The shock was learning how much gaming companies deliberately design their gaming mechanism to fuel juvenile addiction. In many ways games like this are very little different, addiction wise, to any other form of gambling or substance addiction, the end result is the same, the generation of chemical stimulants or suppressants within the brain that lead to addictive behaviours.

That is why so many kids have been reported as being moody, irritable, aggressive or even violent when parents have tried to limit their access to games like Fortnite and its precursors to a lesser degree, like COD etc. These are withdrawal symptoms similar to opiod addictions (to a lesser degree).

So as much as I agree with the Government looking at Loot boxes, they should actually spend more time looking at underlying mechanisms within certain games to better understand how that game is 'actually' designed to produce an emotional response trigger within its target audience. Very few gaming companies will admit to doing this, they try and keep it very quiet as it would generate some pretty negative publicity, but the practice definitely exists - the proof can be seen in the reported large scale behavioural changes of a specific audience of a certain type of game.
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That is a capitalism problem though it only works for me when heavily regulated and people protected. We just need to save time and money by skipping the research (We already know) and just writing on a bill of law that these things are illegal.

Fortnite would have to stop this, Sack the physchologists and think of a child friendly approach. If you give these kids constant dopamine hits, They will never succeed or try at tasks that require long periods of effort for one satisfactionary dopamine hit at the end. They are going to grow up to be a horrible entitled and constant reward and approval seeking generation.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
Children need to be educated. That is the main issue. I know kids who play it. One doesn't buy any skins but his parents explain everything to them and he's well above average when it comes to behaviour, etc. I know another who begs for skins and basically is just left to his own devices and is completely spoilt. He is therefore not being educated on why he cannot have them or even explained to him what a waste of money they are.
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Education is certainly part of it, of both parents and children. But I do also think that if a game needs this level of parental involvement then it probably shouldn't be rated as suitable for young children.

While I personally would like to see loot boxes banned outright, and all micro-transactions scrutinized. I think a more likely outcome would be age gating games with loot boxes in them.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
not really. people enjoy playing a game they can choose to buy skins if they want to.

i have a £400 knife on csgo i got from a box 4 days ago. so i'm chuffed
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I’m pleased you’re happy, but do you not think it’s a bit bonkers that an in-game asset can be valued at that sort of money? It’s just a little model/texture.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
mate there was a skin that sold for $35K in CSGO. so £400 is nothing.
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Wasn’t really my question mate.

$35k is, imo, idiocy. These items are artificially rare; they’re data, which could be made infinitely available. Developers are creating demand simply by making it unlikely to find the item, and allowing people to place monetary value on it.

I’m not judging, everything is as valuable as we make it, and people are entitled to spend as much as they want, on what they want. It’s just I can’t fathom how someone can value a game asset as say, ten times more valuable than the game itself.

It’s a genius model, from a business perspective. As a consumer, I don’t just don’t get the appeal. Hoping to hear the other side of the discussion, from someone who actually sees or understands the value in it.
 
WantoN said:
Wasn’t really my question mate.

$35k is, imo, idiocy. These items are artificially rare; they’re data, which could be made infinitely available. Developers are creating demand simply by making it unlikely to find the item, and allowing people to place monetary value on it.

I’m not judging, everything is as valuable as we make it, and people are entitled to spend as much as they want, on what they want. It’s just I can’t fathom how someone can value a game asset as say, ten times more valuable than the game itself.

It’s a genius model, from a business perspective. As a consumer, I don’t just don’t get the appeal. Hoping to hear the other side of the discussion, from someone who actually sees or understands the value in it.
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I have an AK skin worth like £80 too. And tbh it looks great in your hand. It just makes it look nice that is all. I mean it does nothing else different from normal AK apart from look like a custom job. A bit like people who spend thousands on a custom paint job for their cars, etc.

I don't like EA, fifa packs, fortnite but I do like Apex Legends but I think they got too greedy so I stopped playing especially since you can't sell skins on. CSGO however is a classic it will be around forever. I used to spend £2-3K on gaming per year easy. Now I spend maybe £200-£400 a year. If I buy a few packs with that money it's no big deal for me as I like CSGO.

One day I'll sell the skins on and cash out so will have cost me nothing essentially. That is the beauty of the CS model. You can sell for cash money.
 
SimonR said:
The problem is that game developers no longer just build games to have fun, they use psychologists to help them build mechanisms into the game that generate that dopamine hit that builds addiction. Games like Fortnite are designed so that players (addicts) get their tiny and frequent dopamine hit, which gives them a mini high. Skins, loot boxes etc are just an extension of this addictive behavior in that they act in a similar way and in some ways are more addictive as they can be purchased at any time, the craving or itch needs to be scratched.

Children's and juvenile brains are far more receptive to dopamine / reward behavior and game developers and their teams of psychologists are exploiting this.

So yes parents should be more aware of their children's activities but you cannot blame them for not understanding the psycho-mechanics behind the complex and intricate mechanisms that game developers use, to deliberately drive addictive behaviours, which they then exploit using pay-to-win / skins / loot box mechanisms to further fuel this addictive behaviour and then monetize the addiction.

I have worked with clinical psychologists and psychiatrists and game developers looking at addictive behavior in gaming. I have presented at medical conferences and worked with children's services on clinical addiction in video games, particularly in juveniles. I do not have a medical background, but have a long history of gaming and gaming addiction, which is how I was introduced to the teams that I worked with. The shock was learning how much gaming companies deliberately design their gaming mechanism to fuel juvenile addiction. In many ways games like this are very little different, addiction wise, to any other form of gambling or substance addiction, the end result is the same, the generation of chemical stimulants or suppressants within the brain that lead to addictive behaviours.

That is why so many kids have been reported as being moody, irritable, aggressive or even violent when parents have tried to limit their access to games like Fortnite and its precursors to a lesser degree, like COD etc. These are withdrawal symptoms similar to opiod addictions (to a lesser degree).

So as much as I agree with the Government looking at Loot boxes, they should actually spend more time looking at underlying mechanisms within certain games to better understand how that game is 'actually' designed to produce an emotional response trigger within its target audience. Very few gaming companies will admit to doing this, they try and keep it very quiet as it would generate some pretty negative publicity, but the practice definitely exists - the proof can be seen in the reported large scale behavioural changes of a specific audience of a certain type of game.
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That kind of addiction is somewhat happening to me. Except the mood/aggression part, just obsessive for more grind runs. LUL

 
Psycho Sonny said:
I have an AK skin worth like £80 too. And tbh it looks great in your hand. It just makes it look nice that is all. I mean it does nothing else different from normal AK apart from look like a custom job. A bit like people who spend thousands on a custom paint job for their cars, etc.

I don't like EA, fifa packs, fortnite but I do like Apex Legends but I think they got too greedy so I stopped playing especially since you can't sell skins on. CSGO however is a classic it will be around forever. I used to spend £2-3K on gaming per year easy. Now I spend maybe £200-£400 a year. If I buy a few packs with that money it's no big deal for me as I like CSGO.

One day I'll sell the skins on and cash out so will have cost me nothing essentially. That is the beauty of the CS model. You can sell for cash money.
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Thanks for that. Like I Day, as a business model (and a way to turn a profit) I get it.

Don’t agree with the analogy though. A custom paint job requires many, many hours of work carried out by skilled individuals. Required for every single job. It has inherent value due to the work carried out.

Appreciate the view point still, your particular stand point makes sense. I suppose it’s like a low-risk stock investment, with an additional gambling element.
 
WantoN said:
Thanks for that. Like I Day, as a business model (and a way to turn a profit) I get it.

Don’t agree with the analogy though. A custom paint job requires many, many hours of work carried out by skilled individuals. Required for every single job. It has inherent value due to the work carried out.

Appreciate the view point still, your particular stand point makes sense. I suppose it’s like a low-risk stock investment, with an additional gambling element.
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I am currently sitting in the green I reckon with CSGO. I got lucky with the £400 knife otherwise I'd be in the red. It is what it is. If I walked away in a years time I will walk away with £500 in my hand if I sold up. I could still play the game and enjoy it.

The knife IMO is really stupid. You barely use them apart from running. The AK skin when you see it on screen you just can't help but admire what it looks like. Especially on my screen. I have a 32" 1440P curved monitor 165hz. Fully calibrated using a colormunki. I'd love to have an expensive skin on all guns I use as it just makes everything look so pretty but I don't buy skins. I buy boxes and whatever I get from them I use. I have only ever bought 1 skin. Which I subsequently traded and made a profit on.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
I am currently sitting in the green I reckon with CSGO. I got lucky with the £400 knife otherwise I'd be in the red. It is what it is. If I walked away in a years time I will walk away with £500 in my hand if I sold up. I could still play the game and enjoy it.

The knife IMO is really stupid. You barely use them apart from running. The AK skin when you see it on screen you just can't help but admire what it looks like. Especially on my screen. I have a 32" 1440P curved monitor 165hz. Fully calibrated using a colormunki. I'd love to have an expensive skin on all guns I use as it just makes everything look so pretty but I don't buy skins. I buy boxes and whatever I get from them I use. I have only ever bought 1 skin. Which I subsequently traded and made a profit on.
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Valve allows to sell and make real cash outside of steam store credit?
 
NZXT30 said:
Valve allows to sell and make real cash outside of steam store credit?
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No but third party sites allow it. There is some risk involved but so long as you do it all quickly and put it up for a good price it should sell.

For example I could put it on the members market I believe some people have done that in the past.

Failing that I could sell it for steam credit. Then buy a HTC VIVE then sell that on ebay.

There are various ways to get money out from steam.

You can even offer to buy games for people at a discount. For example a new game comes out at £40. Offer to buy for them for £35 and gift it to their account. They get a £5 discount and you get cash for your credit.
 
@Psycho Sonny really appreciate the insight man, thank you.

I love playing R6 Siege, and when I win Alpha Packs and get cool skins I’m pleased. I have a few operators with cool outfits and I like it. Gaining Alpha packs through XP and opening then is fun, but if someone asked me to pay money for them, i would be able to help but laugh.

The idea of valuing a skin high enough to pay cash for it is still mind boggling to me, but there’s plenty of people doing it. Maybe I’m the weird one.
 
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