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lost for words.

Fuzz said:
It's not related to Pakistan, it appears to be related to indoctrination to "that" religion.


Watch this from 2 minutes onwards and tell me "oh they are just extremists"

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What's the problem? People always try and categorize Muslims and then when followers of Islam say that they are "noramal" Muslims and adhere to the Qur'an and Sunnah then all of a sudden they are "extremists".

Back on topic to this cultural beating, that is all it is - a tribal or cultural way of life. Honor killing is prevalent in many cultures and it is NOT part of Islam. You can say it is because a dude with a Muslim name happened to murder his wife. :rolleyes:
 
Fuzz said:
It's not related to Pakistan, it appears to be related to indoctrination to "that" religion.


Watch this from 2 minutes onwards and tell me "oh they are just extremists"

Click to expand...

That is scary...

How can they think its acceptable to stone someone to death for adultery?? I wouldn't mind but half of the time the adultery hasn't taken place!!!

Women who want a divorce from their husbands have been beaten and killed as the husband started a lie about her cheating on him. Get his mates to provide evidence and she is effectively a dead women walking - dont forget women can not provide evidence!

Have any of you seen The Stoning of Soraya M.? Link
Not sure if it is based on a true story but the film graphically depicts what happens to some women in Iran
 
leicrao1 said:
Plot thickens

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...g-honour-killing-admits-strangling-first-wife
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Muhummad Iqbal, the 45-year-old husband of Farzana Parveen, who was beaten to death by 20 male relatives on Tuesday, said he strangled his first wife in order to marry Parveen.

He avoided a prison sentence after his family used Islamic provisions of Pakistan's legal system to forgive him, precisely those he has insisted should not be available to his wife's killers.

"I was in love with Farzana and killed my first wife because of this love," he told Agence France-Presse.

Police confirmed that the killing had happened six years ago and that he was released after a "compromise" with his family.
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Didn't know the loophole could be exploited in that way - obvs his current wife's killers can exploit it but I'd have thought surely his murder conviction against his first wife would have to be forgiven by her family not his? Clearly not however... presumably the wife automatically belongs to the husband's family upon marriage.

"Although we have some educated people, most are still living in semi-tribal societies in far-flung rural areas," he said. "In a country where people are being killed every day by miscreants and militants it is not so important when one woman is killed by one husband."
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fair enough - most Pakistanis are simple folk living in tribes albeit with a few educated folk living in cities...

Some members of the public in Lahore clearly share the media's ambivalence.

Muhammad Yaqub, a student at a private university in the city, said he understood the loss of honour for the family but disliked the brutal way the woman had been killed.

"He did some right and some wrong," he said.
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...oh wait - even the student at a private university is a bit on the fence re: honour killings

The whole country is screwed - people like to blame colonialism or capitalism or globalisation etc.. etc.. for problems in these third world countries - I'm starting to think the main source of blame should be directed at the countries themselves... how can they realistically develop if even university educated people have those views... This is a country where most of the population believes apostates should be killed, where people accused of blasphemy are lynched by angry mobs and where recently the only lawyer in the capital who agreed to defend a man charged with blasphemy was openly threatened by the prosecution, in court and later shot dead in his own offices.
 
majnu said:
What's the problem? People always try and categorize Muslims and then when followers of Islam say that they are "noramal" Muslims and adhere to the Qur'an and Sunnah then all of a sudden they are "extremists".

Back on topic to this cultural beating, that is all it is - a tribal or cultural way of life. Honor killing is prevalent in many cultures and it is NOT part of Islam. You can say it is because a dude with a Muslim name happened to murder his wife. :rolleyes:
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I would like to disagree with you about it not being part of Islam

It might not just be part of Islam but it is part of it

Its not that they are all of a sudden "extremists", its just what they believe in and what they believe is correct is very extreme to us in general western society EDIT: they probably wont strap a bomb to themselves and go an blow up a bus full of kids, but their view points are extreme in relation to ours

Honour Killings happen all over the globe. South America surprised me tbh:

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majnu said:
Back on topic to this cultural beating, that is all it is - a tribal or cultural way of life. Honor killing is prevalent in many cultures and it is NOT part of Islam. You can say it is because a dude with a Muslim name happened to murder his wife. :rolleyes:
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This is a country with NUCLEAR weapons remember...


Not some back water country that's still trying to set up a government
 
TrixiBuG said:
How can they think its acceptable to stone someone to death for adultery?? I wouldn't mind but half of the time the adultery hasn't taken place!!!
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Its not an uncommon view unfortunately - obviously some (not all) Muslims believe its the correct punishment under sharia law and if your personal morals are dictated by your religious beliefs then being brought up in a Muslim culture where people believe that could make you think that its OK... simply because your God (apparently) has said its OK*

Sultan of Brunei, for example, has recently made it law over there. Saudi already has it on the books... but they've been following a full-retard conservative version of Islam for a while and kill people accused of 'witchcraft' etc...

*yes obviously not all Muslims share this view (hopefully most in the UK don't) and plenty of others believe their beliefs/interpretations are the 'true' version of Islam
 
TrixiBuG said:
I would like to disagree with you about it not being part of Islam

It might not just be part of Islam but it is part of it

Its not that they are all of a sudden "extremists", its just what they believe in and what they believe is correct is very extreme to us in general western society EDIT: they probably wont strap a bomb to themselves and go an blow up a bus full of kids, but their view points are extreme in relation to ours
Click to expand...

Another police officer, Naseem Butt, identified the slain woman as Farzana Parveen, 25, and said she had married Mohammad Iqbal against her family's wishes after being engaged to him for years........

Arranged marriages are the norm among conservative Pakistanis, who view marriage for love as a transgression
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That honour killing is not part of Islam. Nowhere does it say that parents must kill their children if they refuse to marry their choice. If she had sex outside of marriage (engagement doesn't constitute as marriage) then I don't know what Sharia says about that.
 
Islam, that is all. Am I doing it right :)

At the end of the day it shouldn't be a generalisation you're right. If I was a Pakistani though I would be making damn sure I distanced myself from it, something they seem to be unable to do around here for some incomprehensible reason.
 
diamount said:
But that wouldn't bode well with the general anti-Islam rhetoric around here.
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Indians are not all the same. India is a bit like the US, a mix of people from many different ethnic/cultural backgrounds.

And like the US I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that much of the barbaric behaviour (of whatever flavour) is actually carried out by people from highly specific cultural/ethnic demographics.

It would be very interesting to see an analysis
 
Its not just in India or the UAE etc - it happens in Russia and in Brazil/South America, so I don't think its 100% a religion thing there is clearly a cultural element also. Russia (for example) is 41% Russian Orthodox and only 6.5% Muslim

The problem really is that these laws are twisted to suit the need of who ever wants to 'get rid' of someone:

“Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women – bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way”. Quran 4:15
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The 4 witnesses mentioned in the above can only be male. The woman can testify but in the grand scheme of things she is out numbered 5-1. If the accuser wants to punish the women then he can do with a little help from his friends...and this is where all this **** comes from.

  • Man wants to get ride of woman to marry someone else
  • Man wants a divorce, which automatically means the children are his, the house is his and she will have nothing
  • Woman refuses
    OR
  • Woman is raped, and tried to report the crime

    Then:
  • Man accuses woman of adultery
  • Women denies it - claiming that the accusation is born out of refusal for a divorce or that she was attacked and raped
  • Man pays off 4 other men to testify that they have 'seen' the adulterous act take place
  • Court/ law official/ holy man rules in favour of the man (as women have very little power or say) and (as per the above quote) deems its Allahs will that she should be stoned to death etc

And the circle continues. This could be applied to other cultures where religion is central to the populous such as Russia or Brazil but I dont have/know much about these

Edit:
Orionaut said:
Indians are not all the same. India is a bit like the US, a mix of people from many different ethnic/cultural backgrounds.

And like the US I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that much of the barbaric behaviour (of whatever flavour) is actually carried out by people from highly specific cultural/ethnic demographics.

It would be very interesting to see an analysis
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+1 to this
 
Orionaut said:
Indians are not all the same. India is a bit like the US, a mix of people from many different ethnic/cultural backgrounds.

And like the US I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that much of the barbaric behaviour (of whatever flavour) is actually carried out by people from highly specific cultural/ethnic demographics.

It would be very interesting to see an analysis
Click to expand...

You have to remember before 1947 they were one country. So cultural indoctrinations, ignorance, caste systems, and practises remained in the people regardless of any man made border or religion.
 
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