Luton airport...

As an older driver who got his licence in the early '80's I well remember the simple cars of years gone by, but much prefer modern cars with all the driver aids, especially with the amount of traffic and appalling driving standards these days (of course driver aids and appalling driving may be linked. Stick a spike in the steering wheel rather than an airbag and people might be more careful :p ). I do think wing mirror cameras are a step too far though.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I think you are conflating 2 things which are not necessarily the same.

I would much rather a technically only adequate driver (who was capable of passing their test) be on the road, making full use of driver aids such as adaptive cruise and ABS , and whilst maybe not actually that amazing at controlling a drift on a damp roundabout , keep a safe distance behind people on the road and don't hoon through residential areas.....

than a driver who thinks he is Lewis Hamilton , and maybe technically IS a more talented driver if push came to shove on a track or driving sim, but who likes to try to climb in the back of my car on a motorway , weaving in and out of traffic because they have the "skills" and just generally being really aggressive.

obviously I am painting with a wide brush and there is a whole range of people but imo a lot of drivers who think they are really good drivers and pooh pooh traction control and what not because they can do it better......... are more likely to the the bell ends who are super aggressive on the road. and I would take a less "talented" driver over them every time.
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Its always telling, the ones who think being a good driver is all about car control.
Yes on a track.

On the road its got a completely different set of rules. The rules are more important.
If you drive safely and follow the rules you never even need much above pretty poor car control.
 
On the topic of driving standards, people should just have to take a retest every 10 years. Would remove a lot of the bad drivers.
 
fez said:
On the topic of driving standards, people should just have to take a retest every 10 years. Would remove a lot of the bad drivers.
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it depends on your definition of bad.

for sure it would weed out those who are incapable of driving safely.............. but those who tailgate, cut people up on motorways, weave in and out of traffic, pull out on junctions or drive stupidly fast through residential areas........................ i am pretty sure even they could behave for a 1hr driving test!.

who are the bigger threat, those who do what i listed above, or doddery people with failing eye sight and poor reactions (i genuinely do not know, but i suspect the doddery folk are fewer in number)
 
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Flying out of Luton again on Wednesday (they always seem to have cheapest flights) and the Daart is finally working again, just in time :p.
 
fez said:
On the topic of driving standards, people should just have to take a retest every 10 years. Would remove a lot of the bad drivers.
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The problem isn't the drivers, it's the trainers. Here you don't get taught how to drive, you get taught how to pass a test.

I did my driving licence in Holland and it was a very, very different experience to when my wife did hers here. The whole system needs a refresh from the top down tbh.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I think you are conflating 2 things which are not necessarily the same.

I would much rather a technically only adequate driver (who was capable of passing their test) be on the road, making full use of driver aids such as adaptive cruise and ABS , and whilst maybe not actually that amazing at controlling a drift on a damp roundabout , keep a safe distance behind people on the road and don't hoon through residential areas.....

than a driver who thinks he is Lewis Hamilton , and maybe technically IS a more talented driver if push came to shove on a track or driving sim, but who likes to try to climb in the back of my car on a motorway , weaving in and out of traffic because they have the "skills" and just generally being really aggressive.

obviously I am painting with a wide brush and there is a whole range of people but imo a lot of drivers who think they are really good drivers and pooh pooh traction control and what not because they can do it better......... are more likely to the the bell ends who are super aggressive on the road. and I would take a less "talented" driver over them every time.
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100% true. I have to laugh and people who conflate good technical driving skills, with being a better driver than someone who drives slower and more cautiously.
 
fez said:
On the topic of driving standards, people should just have to take a retest every 10 years. Would remove a lot of the bad drivers.
Click to expand...

Maybe not a retest, until a certain age like 60, but an assessment by a driving instructor or something like that.
 
bigmike20vt said:
it depends on your definition of bad.

for sure it would weed out those who are incapable of driving safely.............. but those who tailgate, cut people up on motorways, weave in and out of traffic, pull out on junctions or drive stupidly fast through residential areas........................ i am pretty sure even they could behave for a 1hr driving test!.

who are the bigger threat, those who do what i listed above, or doddery people with failing eye sight and poor reactions (i genuinely do not know, but i suspect the doddery folk are fewer in number)
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I'm not convinced a lot of those people could "turn it on" for a test. Its been so long for them driving like complete bellends that they would very much slip up.

But yes, elderly drivers worry me more sometimes. You get the two camps. The ones that drive super slow because they are a bit nervous and want to compensate for their reactions/sight. Then you have the ones that just don't seem to take anything in and just single-mindedly plough through everything with a complete lack of awareness. Its the second group that worry me the most. Especially when I am on my bike. I give them a very wide berth and make sure I never rely on them to do anything.

ICDP said:
100% true. I have to laugh and people who conflate good technical driving skills, with being a better driver than someone who drives slower and more cautiously.
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The absolute worst are those that "have never had a crash". Obviously because they are so good at driving, not because everyone sees them from a mile off and compensates for their awful driving. I reckon that every journey over half an hour and every single time I spend more than 10 minutes on the motorway I have to avoid hitting someone who does something stupid. The reason our roads aren't carnage is because most people avoid crashing if possible so the bad drivers are rarely punished for their lack of awareness.

ElliorR said:
Maybe not a retest, until a certain age like 60, but an assessment by a driving instructor or something like that.
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Yeah, perhaps.
 
ElliorR said:
Maybe not a retest, until a certain age like 60, but an assessment by a driving instructor or something like that.
Click to expand...
Definitely at the very least a mandated eye test every 10 years starting with when you go for your test*, and when you hit say 40-50 it drops to every 3-5 years when you hit 60.
It would also have the effect of most likely catching all sorts of eye issues early enough for treatment to be started, and not just making sure people can see the car in front of them.

No one should be driving after about 40 without an eye test imo, so many people are utterly idiotic about getting their eyes tested and either don't register, or ignore the fact they're able to see less and less (it confounds me how little care about their eyes most people seem to have, given once they're damaged you can do very little to fix them, and how common various conditions are that can cause serious damage if you don't start treatment).

*They already ask if you wear glasses and do a "can you read that number plate" quickie test, so asking for a copy of a recent opticians report when you renew your licence isn't too much to ask imo.
 
around a year before my grandad died, we tried to have a family intervention and get his licence taken away. At the time he was 91, his eyesight was shot and he could only turn his head one way. For years he had used his wife to look left on junctions, but after she died i think he just winged it.
I will say now it was a horrible thing to have do, becasue we knew it would totally screw any independence he had, but he was a menace on the road.

but the backlash my mum got was horrible, not only from my grandad (which was predictable) but also from other family members as well as the nurses from the care home he was getting a little help from accusing her of being vindictive and trying to ruin his life....... with absolutely no acknowledgement of the fact he was essentially driving a deadly weapon around with little ability to control it or the fact that my both my parents and i had seen him drive into walls and parked cars without having a clue he had done it or that we had seen him have periods where mentally he just blanked out for a few seconds.

ultimately my mum failed and he kept his licence until he eventually fell out of his car at a supermarket car park and had to be picked up and then taken to hospital (then into a home for a few weeks and that was then that).

in short, whilst i do not specifically know what requirements should be put on people to prove their competence.......... the ones we have right now are absolutely not suitable, proven by the fact that he did all the tests he had to and he passed them!. I guess he just got lucky and was having a really good spell when he was checked out, either that or he was able to mentally challenge himself for short bursts perhaps................. In truth i have no idea. (way off original topic now)

(I am going back 8-9 years but am unaware of significant changes since then)
 
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