Caporegime
The ingenium diesel engines are one of the worst modern engines I can think of. I am surprised their isn't some lawsuit going on in the states or something.
Luton airport...
- Thread starter Uther
- Start date
The ingenium diesel engines are one of the worst modern engines I can think of. I am surprised their isn't some lawsuit going on in the states or something.
If owner didn't respond to evoque recall where does the liability lie.
They should do a post-portem on all Luton cars to decide if any ev's contributed to transmission, from patient zero - apparently they failed to do that for Norway multi-storey fire, to see if batteries had remained inert.
They should do a post-portem on all Luton cars to decide if any ev's contributed to transmission, from patient zero - apparently they failed to do that for Norway multi-storey fire, to see if batteries had remained inert.
Soldato
Keep investigating, we need to blame this on an EV somehow.
Permabanned
The customers of mine who, shall we say, were bold enough to buy a JLR product probably go to bed dreaming of a terminal conflagration occurring, (after checking the small print of their insurance policies to ensure their policy provider hasn't foreseen "inexplicable" fires being an unaffordable risk due to common overwhelming JLR customer dissatisfaction). 
Or as Manny said to Sol, with a twinkle in his eyes, "Sorry to here about the fire Sol", with Sol replying, "Shut up you old fool, it's not `til next week".
Or as Manny said to Sol, with a twinkle in his eyes, "Sorry to here about the fire Sol", with Sol replying, "Shut up you old fool, it's not `til next week".
I hate to break it to you, a battery is not a fuel source, it is the energy store. The fuel is electricity.
A fault can develop within a cell and can thermal run aways. A faulty battery is still.... a battery.... ergo batteries can cause fires.
I'm not even sure how this is even a discussion
Caporegime
That's not what you said, you said this:
"A diesel car can never be the cause of a fire."
They definitely can and you don't see petrol engines running away and catching fire. They're vulnerable to run away because of the amount of compression they generate allows the engine to burn its own oil. It's not the car's fuel burning (initially anyway) but diesel car's definitely do catch fire and by design they're vulnerable to runaway.
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Soldato
They did do that for the Norway one and no they did not contribute to the fire beyond any conventional vehicle. The (diesel) Opel Zafira that started the fire then spread to other vehicles. https://www.ri.se/sites/default/files/2020-12/FRIC D1.2-2020_01 FIVE conference presentation Multi-storey car park fire, presentation.pdf
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Imagine the phone call to the insurance company if your vehicle started that. Is it likely that the owners insurance will have to cough up for every car and the rebuild costs of the car park as well as flight disruption (can't see easyJet wanting to be out of pocket) and the emergency services amongst I am sure many more claimants.
Caporegime
Yes I did say that because a diesel car in isolation will not be the cause of the fire. It can be a million other things but its source of fuel is irrelevant. Runaway in a diesel car is not caused because it is powered by diesel fuel. It is because the engine runs by using compression as a source of heat and ignition for the fuel that also happens to work with engine oil due to a leak which means it drinks its own sump.
A car in itself is not the route cause of a problem. In your example it is the engine eating its own engine oil. The route cause is because a turbo oil seal has failed. Not because it is a diesel vehicle.
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Soldato
next year comes along..... "your premium for this year is £1,500,000,000 would you like to renew now?"
Caporegime
You argue a diesel engine is vulnerable to runaway by design but if it runs away and catches fire it's not because its a diesel vehicle thats vulnerable to runaway by design?
Come on.....this is getting silly.
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Lol, this is satire right? Right? I mean did you just claim a diesel car cannot cause a fire… only to then describe how a diesel car can cause a fire?
Pure comedy gold… oh no I mean logical lunacy
Caporegime
Lol, this is satire right? Right? I mean did you just claim a diesel car cannot cause a fire… only to then describe how a diesel car can cause a fire?
Pure comedy gold… oh no I mean logical lunacy
No it's called root cause analysis.
You are investigating what caused the fire and you turn around and say what caused the fire?
"It was because it was a diesel m8"
They will turn around and say why?
You will then say because diesel engines can runaway leading to explosion.
They will turn around and say why?
Because if a diesel leaks it can cause the engine to run off its own lubricating oil located in its sump?
They will turn around and say why?
Because a turbo oil seal failed.
The fire hasn't been caused simply because it is a diesel vehicle. The fire has been caused because a turbo oil seal has failed.
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Exactly the logic seems to be… checks notes.
Diesel has a higher flashpoint. As such requires an engine design that uses compression as a source of heat to ignite the diesel. But it’s not the diesels fault if that type of engine causes it to… checks notes again… go on fire?
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listen to the full report where I linked the section in earlier post V
as I said interesting to know if the battery contributed - need to build up scientific data to supplement safety tests that are performed on batteries, to see what there relative safety is,
& good publicity if they remained inert .... if the fires are all out now then probably a good indication they did,
whether fire-brigade does do any gas sampling would be interesting to know, even if they have stand alone respirators.
don't know if there is any robust black box aspect on ev's, with latest eu regs all cars have to preserve more details of crash data(brakes/steering/trajectory before air bags), and you could store battery data in the same place.
Caporegime
Obviously because it is the fault of a component that is there to prevent engine oil mixing with the combustion cycle. If that component didn't fail it wouldn't be a issue which is the root cause for the engine blowing up.
A diesel car cannot be the cause of a fire because when everything is working as it should it is a normal consumer product but if a part of it fails and there are no fail safes in place to prevent a fire then that part that has failed is the root cause not because what fuel it uses. The reasoning why a Diesel engine can runaway and drink its own oil is not a cause is it?
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Soldato
Would a petrol car suffer the same consequence of a failed turbo oil seal?
Let's blame everything else except the fact its a diesel vehicle.
Of course it's got electrical components, every vehicle does, but don't let that get in the way of facts.
If it had been an ev, the same diesel combustion experts, would have been calling for blood.
Of course it's got electrical components, every vehicle does, but don't let that get in the way of facts.
If it had been an ev, the same diesel combustion experts, would have been calling for blood.
Caporegime
No it wouldn't because it runs on a spark to initiate combustion (well technically it could as a failed turbo oil seal could lead to other catastrophic scenarios where the engine could catch fire but we are getting silly now). but I would also say a Petrol car cannot be the cause of a fire. Likewise I would also say a battery powered car is not the cause of a fire.
Now if you said which vehicles were at higher risk of catching fire then that is completely different and would agree that EV's are safer in that regard but at the same time if you said which fire would be easier to put out then it would be a bit different.
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The recent Vauxhall Vivaro EV that went on fire was due to an electrical fault with the wiring behind the dashboard. Let’s focus on the fact it was an EV.
Diesel SUV goes on fire, it was electrical and do you know what else is electrical, those EV things.
Am I doing it right?
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