M5 SMG Transmission

[NVP]

I have some questions about the gearbox in the M5 that I was hoping the might of OcUK Motors would be able to answer for me, I test drove one yesterday and found the SMG terribly jerky and sometimes unpredictable. It wasn’t the refined saloon driving experience I was expecting.

The salesman said the M5 “learns your driving technique” over 300 miles and adapts to the way you drive which is why it is temperamental at first but becomes “super-smooth” once you have owned the car for a while. I do believe I’d get used to the Auto after a few days of driving (as with any car) and it will become more docile to use, but I’m not sure how big of an improvement the “AI” could actually make. Has anyone who has owned an M5 noticed the gearbox to dramatically change? Does it refine or remain “clumsy”?

If it does learn your driving technique, what happens if you drive on the motorway nice and sedate all week but then want to have some fun on the weekends? Does it cater for a schizophrenic driving style?

Another thing the salesman said, when I asked about the gearbox, was it has the same DTC (I assume he meant DCT) as in the new M3, which I don’t believe as I thought the M5 only had a single clutch? The gear changes were quite quick so I don’t see a problem with the single clutch myself, it is an “old” car after all so I wasn’t expecting a modern dual clutch anyway.

I’m not too mechanically minded as most of you could probably tell so I have some questions on the use of the SMG. As it is not a complete Auto, is there a need to lift off the accelerator when manually shifting or is flat shifting perfectly fine? I assumed flat shifting was how it’s meant to be driven but it did feel jerky, it wasn’t as smooth as I was expecting. The salesman told me to lift up when shifting which did make it smoother but does slow you down quite a bit and didn’t quite feel right anyway. If you flat shift all the time, would this reduce the lifespan of the ‘box?

I did like the fact you can just leave it in Auto and then change to manual at whim, and I loved having the sequential gear lever as well as the paddle shifts, I think I preferred the sequential actually. It is such a nice car to drive, and feels big but nimble, although not as nibble as the Evo I tested last week but that is to be expected, much more powerful though and you get a nice sense of speed. The gear changes were just so sudden and clumsy feeling that they made me crave a manual as I could drive it so much better myself. If this had the manual box from the E93 I drove it would be a much nicer performance car to drive, although I guess you then lose the relaxing saloon car abilities.

It was better in “M” mode, the amount of grunt and ferocity you get out of the car increases ten-fold and the changes felt sharper yet slightly smoother. One thing I did love was how in “M” mode the car is much more tail happy, it’s like they’ve set the traction control to “slip a little for fun, but not too much fun or you’ll die!”, I think I scared the salesman with this. He wouldn’t let me turn off the traction control completely though.

Anyway, I do like the car but I have concerns about the gearbox. Are they all like this or did I just drive a dog? It was a BMW Used Approved and in very good condition with only ~30k on the clock, but it just didn’t feel like I expected an M5 to feel. I will be test driving another as soon as I can but I would just like to know if the gearbox gets better or remains unpredictable, jumpy & clumsy.

 

[NVP]

Yeah that's what I thought, I knew the BMW guy was lying too me (or perhaps he simply got confused).

The auto mode wasn't the nicest experience although it did make sense in rush hour traffic with the many round-a-bouts MK has, but as soon as there was a bit of freedom it started to panic. Manual did seem nicer and I agree the higher speeds felt much nicer but lifting off at lower speeds didn't feel as natural as you would expect, I think due to not have a clutch to press.

How long have you had your M5 OllyM? Have you noticed it get better as you've driven it for longer? I'm intrigued as to how effective this ability to learn your driving technique is.

EDIT: Any advice as to if flat shifting reduces the life of the clutch? I assume it shouldn't but as lifting makes it smoother does that mean not lifting puts more strain on the 'box?

 

[NVP]

Oh, was that yours at the RR this weekend? Very nice

 

[NVP]

Since last Friday, the learning thing is the salesman talking rubbish I think

Oh really? That's a shame, if that is how the car is everyday I think I would get so fed up I'd have to sell it on. I suppose I could have been driving a below par example, or maybe I was just driving it completely wrong.

The faster the shift the more load the clutch is put under, I guess it must wear it more? I usually drive around with it in S3 which is quick enough day to day, and have it set to S5 in M mode for maximum attack.

I must admit, "maximum attack" was such a nice feeling. The car just wouldn't stop pulling I suppose any problems caused would be covered by warranty anyway but my assumption was that it was built to handle the "abuse".

Quite a jump from a 325Ci to an M5.

I take it you've done your homework about the costs of running such a beast?

Not really, but I'm assuming it's not Italian supercar territory. I'm kind of at a point in my life where I'm still young with not many out goings and am earning gazillions so I thought "why not?". I enjoy driving so why not waste my money on that whilst I have the freedom to enjoy it. But even with an overestimated outgoing cost of 10k a year on servicing, petrol, insurance and such I can still keep saving a very nice amount for another house deposit so I thought I might as well while I'm still young.

The 325Ci has been a nice short love affair, but it bores me now. I need something more thrilling but I wasn't sure what, I test drove a small but varied amount of cars (911s, Nobles, BMWs, Evos) and the only thing that seems to have got me (almost) completely sold is the M5... apart from this gearbox

 

[NVP]

'M' button does what ever you programme it to do - don't assume it gives you full power /traction off as it depends what they have done to it at the dealership etc.

Oh really? So you can fully customise the M? I noticed when I pressed M an MDM light lit up as well as the M light. Do you know what this is?

It's not far off some Italian stuff to be honest.

But it's more reliable so should have less outgoings than the exotic stuff. I was looking at Porsches previously but the Turbos seemed to involve a very high maintenance cost if something was wrong and I assumed Italian supercars were similar. Plus the initial purchase price is significantly higher.

 

[NVP]

I initially didn't realise the M mode altered the traction control, but I did like the tail happiness of it. It was enjoyable yet controllable up to a point and still felt safe.

Do you not use Auto at all any more? What about on the motorways? In the higher gears it didn't feel too bad but did appear to shift earlier than expected so didn't have as much grunt as needed at times.

EDIT: Lucero, thanks for that, I will make sure I reset on the next test drive. So some BMWs do learn the drivers technique then? Does yours feel noticeably better now than after you first got it?

 

[NVP]

Cheers for the breakdown MrLOL, it doesn't seem too bad at all for the type of car you get and is cheaper than I was expecting. Would "some Italian stuff" really be around the same? I always thought they would be much, much more to keep going. And reliability wise... I always assumed the M5 is extremely reliable, was I mistaken?

I am confused about this "driver learning" ability now, if there is a reset routine then surely it exists? Are we just saying that we don't think it actually does anything much at all? If the switch below the gearstick determined the revs the gears change at then what else is the AI for?

 

[NVP]

The reset thing is for automatic BMW's so I've got no idea why Lucero posted it in here. Let's be honest, you're never going to use automatic mode in it, so forget about it. Try driving one in manual mode alone which is what everybody does!

Yeah I did prefer it in manual mode, I guess a dodgy auto isn't really a big problem.

When it comes to reliability, be under no illusion, they aren't that good.

What common faults should be expected?

What age of car are you looking at? The LCI cars are meant to be a lot better.

I test drove an 06 but would really prefer a late 07 to catch the LCI although I thought there were no cosmetic differences, just iDrive and such.

But I honestly don't mind really, I'd prefer one with a spec and colour combo I like in good condition rather than just newer.

 

[NVP]

There are loads of cosmetic differences, and the quality of the interior plastics improved a lot at LCI. Details are here: http://5series.net/information/2008_LCI_Detailed_Changes.pdf

Common faults seem to be mainly VANOS and SMG pump related, a good warranty should cover both.

Cheers for that, I really have to stop listening to salesmen!

 

[NVP]

Cheers for the info guys, and thanks for the link MrLOL I'm reading through it now.

To be honest, I expect the big bills with this type of car and if a couple grand for a new clutch has to be paid then I can't see too much hassle in paying it, would be nicer to have BMW front it through a warranty though

I'm going to have a look at one tomorrow morning, it's an ex company directors car with ever single optional extra available, heated rear seats, TV, rear & side blinds etc... Just under 40k on the clock and is a pre-facelift 07 I think, but does look extremely nice, hopefully I'll bond better with this car than the last one... I still think there was a problem with the gearbox in that car.

 

[NVP]

The best method to get the best from them is when your hooning it to make sure you flat change and at or very close to the limiter, so don't lift.

But when your cruising or around town just lift ever so slightly on up-changes or don't alter your foot position on the accelerator, basically as you get used to the car and the traits of the gearbox you will just drive it a lot smoother anyway.

Cheers for the advice Gibbo, I know all cars take some getting used to and you have to adjust your driving style, this one just felt too extreme in it's unpredictability and jerkiness. I'll take note for tomorrows drive.

Just buy a 545i or something, it'll feel like a rocket coming from a 325Ci but cost half as much to run.

A 545 would still be a nice car and I wouldn't snub it at all, but I would like the experience of owning an M5. I don't think you'd have to be a millionaire to own one, and I think I'd cope perfectly well with it's running costs. And taking into consideration my age, freedom, and financial state at the moment I think it is the perfect time in my life to enjoy one.

Warnings are heeded though, and you never know it could prove too much and I sell it on anyway, but then again it might not and I'd have a lovely M5 all to myself

 

[NVP]

'the experience of owning an M5' - its a car. A very nice car but the 'experience of owning an M5' is hardly massively different to the 'experience of owning' a 545i or something...

Not really, I'm sure you yourself gawp over an M5 or M3 as they cruise past, but if a 545 or 335 went past it wouldn't be as big a deal. Same thing owning one, yeah ok a 545 is a quick car, but it's just not an M5. If you know what I mean.

Cost wise, I hadn't looked into the M5 costs only because I assumed they were on par with the other cars I'd previous looked at. MPG will be low... expected, tyres/breaks/pads & insurance/tax will be expensive... expected, mechanical faults will be expensive... warranty.

I don't see the costs of owning one as something to stress about, I see them as a necessity for the pleasure of owning one.

at the end of the day NVP, you only live once.
...
Do it.

Cheers MrLOL. Out of all the cars I've been looking at over the last few months this is one that has not put any negativity in my mind regarding the decision, both my heart and head have been saying "Do it, find the perfect one and enjoy it!"

 

[NVP]

...or the fact that the M5 is a supercar with amazing abilities and the 545 is just a very fast saloon.

Don't take what I said out of context, I was referring to your comment of how the experience of owning one is similar to owning a 545 when it is obviously not at all.

EDIT: Although the badges would have more "pulling power" than the engine itself

If you can do it, good luck to you. Just don't be yet another of these who thinks 'It'll be fine!' and is forced to sell it a few months later.

Cheers, I hope I won't. I mean it's not like I don't have the money to maintain it, so unless something goes terribly wrong with the car I hope to keep it for a long time.

 

[NVP]

So the one I saw today... wow what a difference! I'm not sure what was up with the one at the dealership because it was a completely different car. Still jerky in some changes but no where near as bad as the BMW Used Approved one which is quite a shock. I guess even dogs will pass their inspections. This one was much better in both Auto and Manual, much smoother

The car itself was pretty damn nice, every option including the Comfort Access (Keyless entry and ignition etc.), Automatic Soft Close doors, high beam assist, electric sun-blinds, front & rear heated seats, front ventilated seats, TV, DAB and loads more. Apparently it was £75k plus brand new. Wasn't a facelift though but was an 07 plate. Very nice

Only major concern with it was the windscreen was cracked, but other than that and a couple of stone chips it was in excellent condition in and out. He's going to sort the windscreen anyway, although I may just use that to knock the price down even further and claim it on my insurance

Good deal too for the mileage, age and spec. So all I need to do now is get the car inspected and if it's pukka I'll snap it up

I'm not sure how to get it inspected though, AA won't quote (I think because of the engine), BMW will for £250 but they want the car the whole day and I don't think the owner will go for that, RAC are still to get back to me... so I'm not sure who to try next Any suggestions?

 

[NVP]

Really good deal

What's wrong with a pre LCI?

 

[NVP]

Interior was very nice, leather top dash and console, buttons & plastics felt great. Velvet lined door pockets

No LEDs? It's got the eyebrows at the front can't remember if they're LED or not though.

This one was on his site at 28 but he's put it lower on AT and I've knocked him down a fair bit too.

 

[NVP]

I thought it might be too good to be true but after seeing it the condition was superb. I still want to get it checked over mechanically first.

 

[NVP]

They are not LED, I just told you that

To be honest mate if you can, as you say, well afford the huge costs of these cars then why mess around trying to save a few quid buying pre facelift cars from companies called 'Extreme Salvage'. A few grand more gets you a newer, facelift car from a BMW main dealer including your first years warranty with no need for an inspection.

I'm after a nice deal with a very good spec, ones with this spec and age are more than a few grand more. If it's a dog then of course I wouldn't buy it, but if it's in good nick then why would I miss a chance on a bargain?

 

[NVP]

Why are your alarm bells not ringing?

Why should they be? The repossession was due to the company going down, they repossessed that, a 6 series and a few vans.

 

[NVP]

Because with the sort of car an M5 is, and the potential for explosive costs, you don't want a bargain - you want a cossetted minter.

Of course I want a minter, which is why I want it inspected. But why pay more than you have too?