Madeleine McCann cops ask Home Office for more money to continue search for missing child

[Angilion]

I heard early on in this case that this area of Portugal was a favourite place of people of that inclination.

You're probably right that most rings are about adult prostitution. Though over the years there have been a number of rings, or groups, that have been involved in the manufacture of child abuse material, mainly in eastern European countries.

Sadly a child is worth more than an adult woman to these sick people.

Society needs to figure out a tolerable way to smoke out those higher up the hierarchy.

Society would first need to figure out whether or not such a hierarchy exists. You've not provided any evidence of it happening ever, anywhere. After your claims about Belgium were debunked, you moved them to unspecified eastern European countries. Much harder to check than your claim about Belgium.

There's no evidence of rings of organised child abuse covered up by people in power. The closest known situation to is in places like Bradford, where semi-organised abuse was overlooked for some time because nobody dared to risk being denounced as a racist.

It's a form of conspiracy theory - anything bad is more understandable and thus less disturbing if it's all being run by a secret conspiracy amongst extremely powerful people.

Could it happen? Sure. Has it ever happened? Maybe. Is it commonplace? No.

 

[gingergundog]

Society would first need to figure out whether or not such a hierarchy exists. You've not provided any evidence of it happening ever, anywhere. After your claims about Belgium were debunked, you moved them to unspecified eastern European countries. Much harder to check than your claim about Belgium.

There's no evidence of rings of organised child abuse covered up by people in power. The closest known situation to is in places like Bradford, where semi-organised abuse was overlooked for some time because nobody dared to risk being denounced as a racist.

It's a form of conspiracy theory - anything bad is more understandable and thus less disturbing if it's all being run by a secret conspiracy amongst extremely powerful people.

Could it happen? Sure. Has it ever happened? Maybe. Is it commonplace? No.

UN peacekeepers involved in sexual exploitation of underage girls in Kosovo, Bosnia and a handful of other countries which allegedly had been covered up, but cant think of any other examples.

 

[StriderX]

Anyone in a position of power can abuse it, far easier to do so when nobody cares about the victims in some of these places.

 

[GGizmo]

Society would first need to figure out whether or not such a hierarchy exists. You've not provided any evidence of it happening ever, anywhere. After your claims about Belgium were debunked, you moved them to unspecified eastern European countries. Much harder to check than your claim about Belgium.

There's no evidence of rings of organised child abuse covered up by people in power. The closest known situation to is in places like Bradford, where semi-organised abuse was overlooked for some time because nobody dared to risk being denounced as a racist.

It's a form of conspiracy theory - anything bad is more understandable and thus less disturbing if it's all being run by a secret conspiracy amongst extremely powerful people.

Could it happen? Sure. Has it ever happened? Maybe. Is it commonplace? No.

I can tell you've not done much looking in to Belgium before commenting. Didn't you watch the news at the time?

The Belgium government was brought down at least twice, from memory. The reason why people were out on the streets outside their parliament is that Dutroux said he was kidnapping children for judges and people in government. Then at his trial he got a leniant sentence so people came out to protest. You're saying something is a conspiracy when it was on international news.

AP News - Belgium: Demonstration against recent child sex scandals.

Over a quarter of a million people gathered in Brussels Sunday in the biggest demonstration the country has ever seen.

Belgians are protesting against the country's recent child-sex scandals and demanding investigators reveal the full truth behind the crimes.

The rally was reported to be peaceful despite fears to the contrary.

The streets of Brussels became a river of white on Sunday.

Belgians took to the streets to bid a final farewell to youngsters killed by a paedophile gang and protest over judicial handling of the investigation.

They are outraged over bungling that has hampered the search for still-missing children and led to widespread rumours of a cover-up to protect rich and powerful paedophiles.

The dismissal of a key investigating magistrate from the case last week for attending a fundraising event organised by relatives also increased tensions.

There as also been a number of child abuse businesses shut down with their owns arrested in eastern european countries. It's not cooincidence that people like Tate went to Romania. At once time Romania was known for the child orphanages.

I suspect abuse is more rife these days than at any time in the past. If we go off the amount of people arrested for those offenses, including images/videos.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/11/tracymcveigh.martinbright

The international investigation to crack the ring was the biggest in policing history, taking in 13 countries and 180 men. Led by British officers, on 2 September 1998 police forces simultaneously kicked in the doors of 107 homes and made 104 arrests.

There are lots of stories like this, including businesses masking themselves as child modelling agencies that have been shut down. But its difficult to post links and quotes as my post will be one big censor. This stuff goes on a lot more than people realise. It's worse now than ever. Before the Internet became mainstream it wasnt as user friendly so it kept the number of people involved low. But now everyone is online, and everything can be accessed with clicks of a button and the right programs. It's created a higher demand. It's happening so much it's partly been normalised.

 

[StriderX]

Abuse more rife? I doubt it, it's just less easy to hide.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Anyone in a position of power can abuse it, far easier to do so when nobody cares about the victims in some of these places.

Yep there is a reason offenders go to counties with either lax laws or where culturally its more accepted. I certainly don't buy that there are secret organisations like in the Qanon nonsense where rich and powerful people are involved in well organised child sex rings.

I used to do trackdays with a copper who was involved in child porn investigations, he even went back just after retiring to work on the Saville case. He said there has been a big rise in people getting involved in viewing child porn but that is no surprise considering before the internet how the hell would you ever discover where to get any material. Its not something you'd just bring up down the pub.

 

[GGizmo]

Abuse more rife? I doubt it, it's just less easy to hide.

More people are accessing that kind of material so it creates more demand for it.

This is why abuse images are illegal.

 

[Angilion]

I can tell you've not done much looking in to Belgium before commenting. Didn't you watch the news at the time?

The Belgium government was brought down at least twice, from memory. The reason why people were out on the streets outside their parliament is that Dutroux said he was kidnapping children for judges and people in government. Then at his trial he got a leniant sentence so people came out to protest. You're saying something is a conspiracy when it was on international news. [..]

So your "proof" of widespread secret child abuse rings organised and protected by powerful people is an unsubstantiated claim by one serial killer and that some people believed their claim.

 

[GGizmo]

So your "proof" of widespread secret child abuse rings organised and protected by powerful people is an unsubstantiated claim by one serial killer and that some people believed their claim.

It's not MY proof. I wasn't there. I reported from news sources that you trust. Now it doesn't fit your agenda suddenly AP isn't reliable.

My original post mentioned the Belgium case as part of a reply of how widespread these rings are. There are stories of the police around the world raiding peoples houses and shutting down front businesses. This stuff is going on today.

It's interesting that you played down the grooming gangs to only mentioning Bradford. Is it because you know if you name all the towns it was happening in by your logic you'd have been calling it a conspiracy theory?

I can't figure out your agenda for closing down awareness of how widespread this stuff is. I'm hoping you're just being a contrarian to me on the subject.

I'd be interested to know, seen as you don't believe Marc Dutroux in Belgium, do you believe Christian Brueckner in this case, that he is the killer, if not, what is your theory on what happened?

 

[Angilion]

It's not MY proof. I wasn't there. I reported from news sources that you trust. Now it doesn't fit your agenda suddenly AP isn't reliable.

Are you claiming that AP is a serial killer? Or are you unaware of what AP was actually reporting?

I'll belabour the obvious: AP did not claim that there was a conspiracy of powerful people that Marc Dutroux worked for. AP is not the source of that claim.

My original post mentioned the Belgium case as part of a reply of how widespread these rings are. There are stories of the police around the world raiding peoples houses and shutting down front businesses. This stuff is going on today.

Why do you think the conspiracy of powerful people you believe in allows that to happen?

It's interesting that you played down the grooming gangs to only mentioning Bradford. Is it because you know if you name all the towns it was happening in by your logic you'd have been calling it a conspiracy theory?

Bradford was the only one I could remember. Who do you think are the powerful people running the conspiracy?

I can't figure out your agenda for closing down awareness of how widespread this stuff is. I'm hoping you're just being a contrarian to me on the subject.

I can, sadly, figure out your agenda for your misrepresentation and insinuation.

I ask again: Who do you think are the powerful people running the conspiracy you believe in? Are they human?

I'd be interested to know, seen as you don't believe Marc Dutroux in Belgium, do you believe Christian Brueckner in this case, that he is the killer, if not, what is your theory on what happened?

I don't know. And I don't feel any need to make up a conspiracy of powerful people. Or aliens. Or gods.

EDIT: When did Christian Brueckner say he was the killer?

 

[ProStreet]

Are you claiming that AP is a serial killer? Or are you unaware of what AP was actually reporting?

I'll belabour the obvious: AP did not claim that there was a conspiracy of powerful people that Marc Dutroux worked for. AP is not the source of that claim.



Why do you think the conspiracy of powerful people you believe in allows that to happen?



Bradford was the only one I could remember. Who do you think are the powerful people running the conspiracy?



I can, sadly, figure out your agenda for your misrepresentation and insinuation.

I ask again: Who do you think are the powerful people running the conspiracy you believe in? Are they human?



I don't know. And I don't feel any need to make up a conspiracy of powerful people. Or aliens. Or gods.

EDIT: When did Christian Brueckner say he was the killer?

He told someone in a pub on the anniversary

 

[Angilion]

He told someone in a pub on the anniversary

Did he? Or did someone say he did? The source matters when considering evidence. Which makes it unreliable in this case even if he confessed. He's a serial killer and serial rapist. It's not uncommon for people like that to confess to murders they didn't commit. Or to lie about anything.

 

[GGizmo]

Are you claiming that AP is a serial killer? Or are you unaware of what AP was actually reporting?

I'll belabour the obvious: AP did not claim that there was a conspiracy of powerful people that Marc Dutroux worked for. AP is not the source of that claim.



Why do you think the conspiracy of powerful people you believe in allows that to happen?



Bradford was the only one I could remember. Who do you think are the powerful people running the conspiracy?



I can, sadly, figure out your agenda for your misrepresentation and insinuation.

I ask again: Who do you think are the powerful people running the conspiracy you believe in? Are they human?



I don't know. And I don't feel any need to make up a conspiracy of powerful people. Or aliens. Or gods.

EDIT: When did Christian Brueckner say he was the killer?

I'm not going to engage with you when you're hijacking the thread about this serious subject. You've only jumped on it because you saw someone disagree with one part of a previous post.

I've never seen anyone so obsessed with talking about conspiracies as you. I've not said I believe conspiracies. I typed what was being said by the crowd at the time. Go and debate them.

You seem to be trying to hush up pedophile activity. I'm not sure why.

People tried to hush the subject of grooming by calling people racist, and now here you are calling people conspiracy theorists. Think about what position you're taking in this conversation.

You'll be posting next that Epstein was a good bloke who worked alone. I've no time for someone who is trying to play down the activities of pedophiles. I'm not replying to any more of your replies on this subject.

 

[Angilion]

I'm not going to engage with you when you're hijacking the thread about this serious subject. You've only jumped on it because you saw someone disagree with one part of a previous post.

I've never seen anyone so obsessed with talking about conspiracies as you. I've not said I believe conspiracies. [..]

I replied to your claims about widespread conspiracies. Your claims. Not mine. You brought up conspiracies. You claimed there were numerous conspiracies all over the place, that it was commonplace, that people with power were secretly in charge of organised groups of child abusers and were routinely using their power to cover it up.

That's what I spoke against. Your blathering about conspiracies. You have no evidence, of course. So all you can do is lie about people who point that out, falsely accusing them of being part of this global conspiracy to conceal child abuse. You're a very unpleasant person. It's understandable that you're upset that your conspiracy beliefs are being challenged with a request for evidence, but you leaping straight to foul libel in response says a lot about the sort of person you are.

 

[Scougar]

Note: I haven't really kept tabs on this story, just here and there over the years.

Seems like if there has been no progress after all this time, then it should just be moved to a cold case. Absolutely gut wrenching for the family, but without any leads, where do they go?

There must be other families with missing children that didn't receive this amount of time, money and police involvement. This probably seems like a 'Logan's Run' comment, but it isn't. They don't even have a target to go after right now.

If they are going for more funds for this kiddo, then other cold cases must receive the same time and resource.

 

[bris]

Yes they made very bad decisions that night but I think they have probably suffered enough for their mistake. Not knowing for certain what happened to their daughter must be awful. They and her siblings deserve closure.

The original Portuguese cop who did the investigation believed they were to blame but he was shut down and taken off the case. He was later sued unsuccessfully by the Macains after he wrote a book about it, very much pointing the finger at them

Rumours were rife with one of them being that they would sedate the kids so they would sleep, so the parents could have a night out in peace. Maybe they both sedated her not realising the other already did it.

I don't know what happened and suppose no one ever will but for me its more believable than someone taking the poor kid without any signs of a break in.

Both parents refused a lie detector test. Not sure why they weren't made to take one as they were suspects and probably still are.

But for me was the smoking gun, or clever dogs as the case may be.

They alerted 13 times that death had occurred, both in the apartment and their car that's what one of the dogs speciality was. Trained to sniff out death and we all know how good these dogs are.

Whether they did it or not they still went out and left their very young kids alone, that should have at least brought some charged but the middle class doctors even got away with that.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Note: I haven't really kept tabs on this story, just here and there over the years.

Seems like if there has been no progress after all this time, then it should just be moved to a cold case. Absolutely gut wrenching for the family, but without any leads, where do they go?

There must be other families with missing children that didn't receive this amount of time, money and police involvement. This probably seems like a 'Logan's Run' comment, but it isn't. They don't even have a target to go after right now.

If they are going for more funds for this kiddo, then other cold cases must receive the same time and resource.

It isn't the British Police spending our money, it's the Germans spending the money because they don't want the main suspect released from prison.
They 100% know it's Brueckner, they have proof of some sorts but need to make it concrete.

 

[Werewolf]

The original Portuguese cop who did the investigation believed they were to blame but he was shut down and taken off the case. He was later sued unsuccessfully by the Macains after he wrote a book about it, very much pointing the finger at them

Rumours were rife with one of them being that they would sedate the kids so they would sleep, so the parents could have a night out in peace. Maybe they both sedated her not realising the other already did it.

I don't know what happened and suppose no one ever will but for me its more believable than someone taking the poor kid without any signs of a break in.

Both parents refused a lie detector test. Not sure why they weren't made to take one as they were suspects and probably still are.

But for me was the smoking gun, or clever dogs as the case may be.

They alerted 13 times that death had occurred, both in the apartment and their car that's what one of the dogs speciality was. Trained to sniff out death and we all know how good these dogs are.

Whether they did it or not they still went out and left their very young kids alone, that should have at least brought some charged but the middle class doctors even got away with that.

Lie detector tests are an utter nonsense of a psudo science, from memory they're no better than simply having someone sat there talking to them.
What they're mainly good for is getting someone who is guilty but gullible to admit guilt (the Wire has a great scene of this), or to be used as "proof" against someone the jury is unlikely to believe anyway.

I think the only real trials of them have shown they're at best no better that simple guessing.

IIRC most of western Europe and the UK don't allow lie detector results to be used as evidence because of how unreliable they are, even in the US there is some push back against them because of the number of dodgy cases.

 

[FoxEye]

The original Portuguese cop who did the investigation believed they were to blame but he was shut down and taken off the case. He was later sued unsuccessfully by the Macains after he wrote a book about it, very much pointing the finger at them

Rumours were rife with one of them being that they would sedate the kids so they would sleep, so the parents could have a night out in peace. Maybe they both sedated her not realising the other already did it.

I don't know what happened and suppose no one ever will but for me its more believable than someone taking the poor kid without any signs of a break in.

Both parents refused a lie detector test. Not sure why they weren't made to take one as they were suspects and probably still are.

But for me was the smoking gun, or clever dogs as the case may be.

They alerted 13 times that death had occurred, both in the apartment and their car that's what one of the dogs speciality was. Trained to sniff out death and we all know how good these dogs are.

Whether they did it or not they still went out and left their very young kids alone, that should have at least brought some charged but the middle class doctors even got away with that.

Lie detector tests are wholly unscientific, and were most successful (early on) in extracting confessions from people who were afraid that they did work. It's well known today that there is no reliable method for detecting if someone is lying.

I'm no fan of the McCanns, btw. But I wouldn't take a lie detector test. They just don't work.

e: Meh I really should read to the end before replying

 

[SpellowHouse]

Whether they did it or not they still went out and left their very young kids alone, that should have at least brought some charged but the middle class doctors even got away with that.

I have to confess, I have no idea how they escaped that one without being charged. My guess is, if they had not personally known the then PM, and generated massive public support, they would have been. It was negligent to leave the kids alone like that.

There are some facts in the case that point towards the McCann's themselves. Not least of all, that it was pretty inconceivable that someone could take Madeleine without being seen at all. And the dog's reaction to a rental car, that Madeleine had never been in, was suspicious. My guess on all this is we will never know. Even if they find remains, the speculation will continue.