Make cannabis a Class A Drug, say Conservative Police Commissioners...

To be fair that is mostly Coke these days rather than alcohol, or both

I've had acquaintances who definitely weren't using cocaine who started fights after getting extremely drunk on nights out. Some people have a lot of repressed anger/violence which is disinhibited when they drink heavily and then all it takes is a trigger to set them off. There was one man I knew growing up who had a real Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde relationship with alcohol. He was a coal miner and hard as nails, nice as pie when he was sober but mean when he was drunk.

On a more serious note there is a risk of it creating some schizos:

They do NOT claim it causes schizophrenia, even in that subset of genetically susceptible teenagers who are heavy users. When you quoted that passage you missed out the sentence which came next:

In high doses, THCs can induce temporary schizophrenia-like psychotic symptoms such as paranoia, delusions, anxiety and hallucinations."

Cannabis psychosis is a reversible condition which will cease after the user stops using it and it gets out of their system. It is not a life-long chronic illness like schizophrenia which requires a lifetime of treatment. It is misleading and factually incorrect to suggest that it is equivalent to schizophrenia. That is a lie which is often repeated by the right-wing to justify cannabis prohibition.

Teenagers are particularly vulnerable to cannabis because of their brain development. The brain is still developing in the teenage years – up to the age of around 20.

Teenagers are buying their cannabis (in the form of Skunk/Spice - which only exists thanks to prohibition) from drug-dealers. They are criminals so they don't care about selling a psychoactive drug to children. The law has already failed to protect children and making it even more illegal (class A) isn't going to change anything (without a huge increase in the number of Police officers and repressive Police State tactics).

Legalising it and state-regulating it so that safer strains are available will squeeze Skunk and Spice out of the marketplace. Once drug-dealers lose all their adult customers it won't be financially attractive to just sell Skunk/Spice to children and policing efforts can be directed at those who try to target children with them. (The aim to protect children after legalisation would also mean far more people would be willing to help stop Skunk/Spice dealers by reporting them, whereas at the moment many people resent cannabis prohibition and dislike those who enforce it.)

The Royal College of Psychiatrists says there is “a massive process of ‘neural pruning’ going on. This is rather like streamlining a tangled jumble of circuits so they can work more effectively. Any experience, or substance, that affects this process has the potential to produce long-term psychological effects”.

This, combined with the strength of today’s cannabis, can have a devastating effect on mental health, said Dr Campbell.

Several research studies have also explored the relationship between heavy alcohol use during childhood and depression/schizophrenia/reduced IQ during adulthood. There are studies which suggest that individuals who engage in heavy alcohol consumption during adolescence may be more vulnerable to developing depression in adulthood.

Alcohol can also impact brain development during this critical period, potentially affecting emotional regulation and increasing the susceptibility to personality disorders. Other research suggests that it may also be associated with an elevated risk of developing schizophrenia or having psychotic episodes in adulthood. There is evidence suggesting that it can have negative effects on cognitive development, resulting in a lowering of the victim's IQ during their adulthood.

However, correlation does not always imply causation, and it is also known that heavy use of alcohol (or indeed cannabis) during childhood is something that many people who already have a developing mental illness do to make themselves feel better. They may have become mentally ill in adulthood anyway.

Given that alcohol is clearly very damaging to children and yet it is commonly consumed in our society it seems that the current age-restriction system for its usage is adequate for protecting children from it, so there is no reason why a similar system could not be used to protect the underaged from legal recreational cannabis.

“We know the chances of developing mental illness from using cannabis are greatly increased depending on how young you are when you start smoking it, the more you smoke it, and the stronger it is,” he said, warning that the chemical profile of marijuana is “up to 100 times stronger than substances around in the 1960s – they have much stronger tetrahydrocannabinols (THCs) – the main psychoactive part of cannabis”.

This business about the increasing strength of cannabis is rather silly. Illegally imported cannabis resin and oil have been available on the black market for decades. They have always had far higher levels of THC than herbal cannabis and so users just smoke less of them. They smoke it until they feel high enough and then stop.

Just like you would drink a pint or two of beer and then stop, or you would drink a double or two of whisky and then stop. Only a total fool would drink a pint or two of whisky! So stating that it's a problem that herbal cannabis has more THC in it nowadays than in the past only works if you assume that the user is still using roughly the same amount of it. It is actually the ratio between THC and CBD in the cannabis which is critical to reducing the incidence of cannabis psychosis.

The reason why we have Skunk and Spice is because of the prohibition of cannabis. Skunk is a C. sativa strain that was selectively-bred over decades and it has a very high THC/CBD ratio (CBD is an acknowledged anti-psychotic), so it is far more likely than natural cannabis strains to cause temporary psychotic symptoms. The only reason people use these more dangerous forms of cannabis is because the natural (far safer) cannabis strains are not available on the black market and are illegal.

By legalising cannabis and controlling it by state-regulation we could remove the market for Skunk and Spice, because recreational users would prefer to use safer, purer cannabis than dodgy street cannabis if they had a choice.

But the problem with good intentions, the notion that there's not much harm in some otherwise sensible person having a bit of weed occasionally is that that's not really where the main problems are going to be, now we have ridiculously strong strains and people who use it very frequently - that sort of thing is a mental health disaster waiting to happen for some.

But those people are already using it very frequently even though it's illegal! All their spare disposable income and savings are going to ruthless gangs of drug-dealers who are involved in violent turf wars and other crime, rather than to honest legally-regulated producers and the HMRC.

The strongest strain, Skunk, makes up over 95% of herbal cannabis present on the black market in the UK. A strain that causes such a choppy experience for many users would not have taken over unless it made better financial sense to drug-dealers to sell it. (It's high THC yield means they can sell more concentrated intoxicating material, grown locally, and it can be harvested earlier which lowers the risk of their growing operations being found by the Police.)

Also, it's incorrect to say that high THC levels are the fundamental problem, because smuggled cannabis resin/oil have been around for many decades on the black market and we did not have such a high level of cannabis psychosis cases until recently. It's the consumption of Skunk (a high-THC/low-CBD ratio strain) and Spice (a toxic synthetic cannabinoid) that are far more likely to cause cannabis psychosis in genetically susceptible heavy users which is the problem.

Legalisation can be used to replace Skunk/Spice with much safer cannabis strains in the marketplace.
 
Teenagers are buying their cannabis (in the form of Skunk/Spice - which only exists thanks to prohibition) from drug-dealers.

Nope, they're buying it in Amsterdam or indeed in California and other locations where it's quite legal and very different from the weed the hippies used to smoke back in the day.
Legalising it and state-regulating it so that safer strains are available will squeeze Skunk and Spice out of the marketplace.

You've got that wrong too - in reality the opposite happened, you can vape it too now of course:
Marijuana and other products containing THC, the plant’s main psychoactive ingredient, have grown more potent and more dangerous as legalization has made them more widely available.
Although decades ago the THC content of weed was commonly less than 1.5%, some products on the market today are more than 90% THC.
The buzz of yesteryear has given way to something more alarming. Marijuana-related medical emergencies have landed hundreds of thousands of people in the hospital and millions are dealing with psychological disorders linked to cannabis use, according to federal research.

However, correlation does not always imply causation

Yes, but often it does in fact go hand in hand... more to the point though, everyone knows that and that's why we have causal analysis:

Psychotic disorders showed a causal effect on cannabis phenotypes, and lifetime cannabis use had a causal effect on bipolar disorder. Of 2181 European participants from the Norwegian Thematically Organized Psychosis cohort applied in polygenic risk score analyses, 1060 (48·6%) were females and 1121 (51·4%) were males (mean age 33·1 years [SD 11·8]). 400 participants had bipolar disorder, 697 had schizophrenia, and 1044 were healthy controls. Within this sample, polygenic scores for cannabis phenotypes predicted psychotic disorders independently and improved prediction beyond the polygenic score for the psychotic disorders.

Research has shown that cannabis use is associated with an increased risk for an earlier onset of psychotic disorders (such as schizophrenia) in people with other risk factors, such as family history.122,123,138 Cannabis intoxication can also induce a temporary psychotic episode in some individuals, especially at high doses. Experiencing such an episode may be linked with a risk for later developing a psychotic disorder.125-127 A person’s genetics may play a role in this relationship.61,128-131

So as I was saying before:
On a more serious note there is a risk of it creating some schizos:
 
Nope, they're buying it in Amsterdam or indeed in California and other locations where it's quite legal and very different from the weed the hippies used to smoke back in the day.

I AM TALKING ABOUT THE UK. The article you quoted was from the Priory Group (a private British psychiatric healthcare provider). You cannot talk about the situation with teenage users in the UK and then start citing things that are happening with that age-group in California or Amsterdam.

How strong legal cannabis can be is decided by the legislature of the jurisdiction in which it is sold, or not decided, as in the case of California etc. In the US states that have legalised it they have adopted a laissez-faire capitalist system, where the free market is setting the standards for recreational cannabis products.

However, in the UK we could set up a state-regulated legalisation system and prohibit Skunk, Spice, high-THC/low-CBD strains and set limits on THC concentration (just like alcohol has legal limits set on it). International experts on cannabis have agreed that this is the best way to minimise the harm caused by recreational cannabis.

You've got that wrong too - in reality the opposite happened, you can vape it too now of course:

Again, that's what's happening in the USA. We are talking about the UK. That article even complains that cannabis is mostly unregulated in states that legalised it there! (It was their decision on what regulations to introduce on it when they legalised it.) Just because they didn't think it through properly before they legalised it and created a flawed system open to abuse, that doesn't mean we have to make the same mistake.

Vaping it is a lot more healthy than smoking it (especially as many users smoke it with tobacco to get enough heat to burn the bud material). That alone would lower the risk of users getting lung cancer and a host of other respiratory illnesses, but I don't suppose you will ever acknowledge that.

lifetime cannabis use had a causal effect on bipolar disorder.

Bipolar Disorder is not schizophrenia.

The Lancet article goes on to state:

Interpretation​

A subgroup of individuals might have a high genetic risk of developing a psychotic disorder and using cannabis. This finding supports public health efforts to reduce cannabis use, particularly in individuals at high risk or patients with psychotic disorders.

No one is arguing that cannabis cannot cause temporary psychosis in genetically susceptible individuals. That's been known for years. But as I stated in my first reply to you the high-THC/low-CBD ratio strains like Skunk are far more likely to do this than the natural strains. You have completely ignored that issue.

Obviously, people who are at high-risk of developing cannabis psychosis or who have psychotic illnesses should avoid it. But to say everyone should reduce/stop its use because of that vulnerable subgroup of the population is illogical.

Research has shown that cannabis use is associated with an increased risk for an earlier onset of psychotic disorders (such as schizophrenia) in people with other risk factors, such as family history.122,123,138 Cannabis intoxication can also induce a temporary psychotic episode in some individuals, especially at high doses. Experiencing such an episode may be linked with a risk for later developing a psychotic disorder.125-127 A person’s genetics may play a role in this relationship.61,128-131

Note the words in yellow.

Earlier onset means the victim would have developed a psychotic disorder later on anyway.

Those people had other risk factors, besides cannabis use, including genetic predisposition to schizophrenia.

In genetically susceptible users (there is a DNA test for this now), who are heavy users, there is the risk of a TEMPORARY psychotic illness. (As I discussed in my first reply to you.) That is not a life-long chronic psychotic illness like schizophrenia.

'Developing a psychotic disorder' is far too vague, that could just be mild paranoia. You cannot claim it causes life-long schizophrenia based upon such loose vague language. Besides, this study suggests that this issue probably affects a subgroup of genetically susceptible people.

Furthermore, we are talking about users of black market cannabis here (which is mostly high-THC/low-CBD Skunk) and it may contain other harmful adulterants. It is known that smuggled North African cannabis is often deliberately adulterated with Datura (which can itself cause psychotic symptoms).

You cannot do reliable research on the dangers of a drug when the people you are studying are using an impure unnecessarily toxic street version of that drug. The drug being studied should be standardised for safety profile research.

So as I was saying before:

Even if it is true that some more people will develop schizophrenia (who are heavy users and who are genetically susceptible) after recreational cannabis is legalised here, we also have to consider the costs of continuing cannabis prohibition:

- Young people's future careers destroyed because they get a conviction for cannabis possession (far more damaging for the vast majority of them than using cannabis). I personally knew two young men who were thrown out of good universities for being convicted of using it.

- People legally using medical cannabis being harassed, arrested and even prosecuted by the Police. Ongoing stigmatisation of legal medical users of cannabis because most people are put-off by its illicit status.

- Illegal Skunk growing operations being run by enslaved illegal immigrants (forced to work to pay off their debts to violent people smuggling gangs).

- Huge expenditure of taxpayers' money on prosecuting and penalising/imprisoning people for possession and selling of cannabis.

- Far more low-level crime to fund the drug habits of skint heavy users.

- Enriched drug-dealers who branch out into selling other much more damaging illegal drugs and engage in violent crime.
 
Talk about stereotyping people :cry:

Stereotypes often based in reality I'm afraid.

I've seen many fights that started just because someone had too much alcohol to drink and started throwing punches. Just ask any nightclub bouncer in Newcastle about how many fights they've seen where normally mild-mannered young men turned fighting mad after having a skin-full and perceiving that they were being disrespected by someone for some trivial reason. I've honestly never seen anyone get violent after using cannabis.

Alcohol and cannabis are both central nervous system depressants, so if you take the right dose they will both socially disinhibit you and make you more chatty, less awkward, more playful etc. At high doses cannabis also acts as a potent muscle relaxant which means that the last thing its users want to do is start fighting. Whereas, alcohol at high doses will make many people rowdy and aggressive which can lead to conflict and violence.

Intellectual functioning while intoxicated is negatively affected by both alcohol and cannabis. In terms of the harm they do to the individual user and society alcohol is far more damaging than cannabis (many studies have shown this).



Yes, that's because Skunk makes up virtually all the black market cannabis in this country, (it was only created due to prohibition in order to increase the profit margins of drug-dealers). The pleasant smelling strains, (which are also much safer due to their natural THC/CBD ratios), would be available if recreational cannabis was legalised.

newsflash idiots act like idiots regardless of what they are on: correct.

however I don't tend to hang around lowlives in Newcastle so not really relevant. Why would I hang around people that act idiotic. But heavy black out binge drinking seems to be more of a british thing than anything else..

the average person drinking alcohol tends to pleasant. The average weed smoking person tends to be pleasant but extremely dull.


Here speaks a man with a ton of experience.

Does that even make sense?

I don't believe you don't take drugs because you've got to be an absolute crackhead to think alcohol doesn't make lots of people behave like morons, far more so than weed.

Even if it does turn some people into morons, it turns them into passive morons for the most part who don't bother anyone else. A much better alternative to the legions of aggressive pissheads you see out on town every weekend.

Yes you're agreeing with me, passive morons are still morons. Pissheads are pissheads. I don't want to hang around with either??

Others just don’t need as much help.

Bit more funny than diddums attempt I'll give you that.
 
I always find it amusing when a drinker tries to justify their drug of choice being better than another. I'll never understand the attachment people have to drinking a poison nor when they place themselves on a pedestal and think they some moral arbiter of what people should consume.

Just because you can buy it off a shelf in a supermarket doesn't make you a better person.
 
I always find it amusing when a drinker tries to justify their drug of choice being better than another. I'll never understand the attachment people have to drinking a poison nor when they place themselves on a pedestal and think they some moral arbiter of what people should consume.

Just because you can buy it off a shelf in a supermarket doesn't make you a better person.

Honestly i don't justify drink as objectively better, just subjectively for me hence my opinion on a random forum.

I dont even care if its legal or not, but i wouldn't be comfortable with very young people consuming it due to having seen personality changes. Once you are an adult its all fair game.
 
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I AM TALKING ABOUT THE UK. The article you quoted was from the Priory Group (a private British psychiatric healthcare provider). You cannot talk about the situation with teenage users in the UK and then start citing things that are happening with that age-group in California or Amsterdam.

Well, I'm not and it's silly to make some handwaving claim that legalisation will lead to mild strains being used when in reality we can see that the opposite has happened.

Earlier onset means the victim would have developed a psychotic disorder later on anyway.

No it doesn't necessarily, that's not how genetic risk works, they were at risk of that condition and the cannabis use increased the risk.

Even if it is true that some more people will develop schizophrenia (who are heavy users and who are genetically susceptible) after recreational cannabis is legalised here, we also have to consider the costs of continuing cannabis prohibition:

- Young people's future careers destroyed because they get a conviction for cannabis possession (far more damaging for the vast majority of them than using cannabis). I personally knew two young men who were thrown out of good universities for being convicted of using it.

- People legally using medical cannabis being harassed, arrested and even prosecuted by the Police. Ongoing stigmatisation of legal medical users of cannabis because most people are put-off by its illicit status.

Go back to the post you initially quoted and read again:

I used to be very pro-legalising it, not because I'm keen on using it myself or anything but just in general I figured if alcohol is legal then why not weed as it's mild, arguably stoned people cause less problems than drunk people etc. I still am in favour of people being able to use it for "medical" reasons, especially people with chronic or terminal conditions and I'm in favour of it being vaguely decriminalised for small amounts or first-time offences etc.

But the problem with good intentions, the notion that there's not much harm in some otherwise sensible person having a bit of weed occasionally is that that's not really where the main problems are going to be, now we have ridiculously strong strains and people who use it very frequently - that sort of thing is a mental health disaster waiting to happen for some.

re: these points:
Bipolar Disorder is not schizophrenia.
[...]

'Developing a psychotic disorder' is far too vague, that could just be mild paranoia.

No one said bipolar disorder was schizophrenia.

As for the point that you think is too vague - if you note the numbers next to it those are references, you could have just looked at them:

Starzer MSK, Nordentoft M, Hjorthøj C. Rates and predictors of conversion to schizophrenia or bipolar disorder following substance-induced psychosis [published correction appears in Am J Psychiatry. 2019 Apr 1;176(4):324]. Am J Psychiatry. 2018;175(4):343-350. doi:10.1176/appi.ajp.2017.17020223
Kendler KS, Ohlsson H, Sundquist J, Sundquist K. Prediction of onset of substance-induced psychotic disorder and its progression to schizophrenia in a Swedish national sample. Am J Psychiatry. 2019;176(9):711-719. doi:10.1176/appi.ajp.2019.18101217
Murrie B, Lappin J, Large M, Sara G. Transition of substance-induced, brief, and atypical psychoses to schizophrenia: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Schizophr Bull. 2020;46(3):505-516. doi:10.1093/schbul/sbz102

Still too vague for you?
 
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i think it is fair to say if alcohol was invented today there is zero chance it would be legal. should pot be legalised but in a controlled manner..... maybe

objectively i would say if you just use logic and kept emotion out of it i would say probably not, but equally i would say alcohol should also probably be banned................ but if they did that there would be riots and i would be at the front of the mob ;)
 
Well, I'm not and it's silly to make some handwaving claim that legalisation will lead to mild strains being used when in reality we can see that the opposite has happened.

In a foreign country with a generally libertarian attitude to life, which frankly is far from the case here. It is logical to assume that in a legal jurisdiction (run by responsible legislators), like the UK appears to be, regulations would be introduced that would seek to minimise the harm caused by the use of legal cannabis products. For example, we have a wealth of legislation here that regulates the production and sale of alcohol. There has been a sliding scale of taxation on alcoholic beverages (depending on their alcoholic concentration) for over 300 years. The effect of taxing drinks with higher alcohol content at a higher rate has been to reduce their regular heavy consumption by the population.

Clearly, with the attitude of the British government and ruling class, we are never going to go from a situation of having illegal recreational cannabis to one of having a Wild West style laissez-faire free market system, as they do now in some US states. (In the USA, cannabis has been legalised on a state-by-state basis and it is up to the individual state legislatures what regulations they apply to it.) If pure THC products and risky high THC/low CBD* cannabis strains are easily accessible there then frankly their state legislators have failed to do their jobs properly.

*We know from research in both animals and people on CBD (cannabidiol) that it has anti-psychotic properties. It was shown to have opposite effects on brain tissue to THC when given to healthy subjects who underwent brain imaging scans. Pre-treatment with it prevented a high dose of pure THC from causing psychotic symptoms in those volunteers. CBD slows the breakdown of the body's natural endocannabinoid, anandamide, and it is known that raising its levels is associated with reduced psychotic symptoms. Because of these effects CBD is now being tested as an anti-psychotic treatment for schizophrenia. In a double blind trial, schizophrenia patients were given high doses of CBD or placebo and after 6 weeks the CBD group had lower levels of psychotic symptoms. Further research has confirmed that CBD is a useful therapeutic for schizophrenics.

(The point being that cannabis strains/extracts without CBD, or much lower concentrations of CBD than naturally occur, are missing a critical protective agent and any state-regulated legalisation system should not allow such products to be made available.)

No it doesn't necessarily, that's not how genetic risk works, they were at risk of that condition and the cannabis use increased the risk.

They could also have transitioned to schizophrenia by heavy use of alcohol or other drugs (as the articles you listed explain). Very stressful lives, childhood trauma, can also trigger schizophrenia in those who have a genetic predisposition for it. It is known that people with prodromal schizophrenia are far more likely to be heavy drug/alcohol/tobacco users and have chaotic lives.

Also, many Skunk users with schizophrenia continue to use it after diagnosis even though they know that it makes their psychotic symptoms worse. It is also more likely to cause temporary psychotic symptoms in other cannabis users. But a more balanced mixture of THC/CBD doesn't usually have that effect, which is confirmed by the "unusual experiences" (psychotic experiences) section of this graph from that study.

Go back to the post you initially quoted and read again:

Yes, I read it before I replied to you. This thread started because a group of Conservative Police Commissioners called for cannabis to be put into Class A along with heroin and cocaine. I realise that you don't approve of that, but your preference for decriminalisation would just leave the drug-dealers in the driving seat and the Skunk/Spice problem would not be solved that way. These damaging forms of cannabis need to be flushed out of the marketplace by safer legally regulated cannabis products.

But the problem with good intentions, the notion that there's not much harm in some otherwise sensible person having a bit of weed occasionally is that that's not really where the main problems are going to be, now we have ridiculously strong strains and people who use it very frequently - that sort of thing is a mental health disaster waiting to happen for some.

That may seem logical, however, you have to bear in mind that this subgroup of people, who have a genetic predisposition for a high-risk of cannabis psychosis/long-term psychotic illness (with heavy Skunk use), are actually drawn to using Skunk (high THC/low CBD) cannabis. They become dependent on it (self-medicating? or physical addiction?), even though they know it is making their psychotic symptoms worse. I have found several papers which discuss this problem, here is one:

A theoretical explanation of why skunk might have been preferred by patients with first-episode psychosis is that, when they began to experience their illness prodrome, these individuals might have sought increased concentrations of THC to self-medicate. However, experimental studies show that THC induces psychotic symptoms, while cannabidiol ameliorates them and reduces anxiety.16–19 That people who already have prodromal symptoms would choose a type of cannabis that is high in THC and has little cannabidiol (such as skunk), which might exacerbate their symptoms, rather than a cannabidiol-containing type (such as hash), would seem counterintuitive. Page 5, paragraph 5, Di Forti et al., 2015

Because people with a high genetic susceptibility to psychotic illness have a great affinity for heavy use of Skunk it is quite likely that they seek it out even though it is illegal. In other words, almost all of the most at-risk individuals are probably already using it and would not wait until after cannabis has been legalised before starting to use legal cannabis products. Hence, legalising it would probably make little difference to this group and so not cause a significant increase in bipolar or schizophrenia cases in the UK.

However, if cannabis was legalised in the UK we could enforce a state-regulation system which would ban high THC/low CBD strains and pure THC extracts. We could mandate that legal THC products always have to contain an equal concentration of CBD and the higher the concentration of THC the more tax has to be paid on them (as for alcohol taxation) to discourage heavy regular usage. The strains that were legalised could be the safest strains available. We do not have to copy countries who have unwisely failed to regulate products on their legal recreational cannabis markets.

Perhaps the most at-risk users who are using illegal Skunk could be encouraged to switch to the much safer legalised (and ultimately more available/affordable) cannabis strains instead after legalisation, preferably medicinal low THC/high CBD strains. Obviously, it would be better if they did not use cannabis at all and education campaigns could be promoted in that regard, but most of them seem to be very resistant to stopping their cannabis use.

No one said bipolar disorder was schizophrenia.

You originally said legalisation might increase the risk of creating 'some schizos'.

As for the point that you think is too vague - if you note the numbers next to it those are references, you could have just looked at them:

My apologies. I have limited time and responding to your points and copied/pasted quotes from other sources takes long enough without also reading all the articles cited by your quoted texts.

Those studies are using more recent datasets which are likely to be based on the reaction of users to Skunk and other high THC/low CBD strains of cannabis (which are dominant on the black market) and concentrated pure THC extracts (which are now legal in some jurisdictions). It's quite likely that those more toxic forms of cannabis increase the transition rate of genetically susceptible heavy users to schizophrenia/bipolar disorder as well as increase their risk of temporary cannabis psychosis episodes. The old data which concerned "Hash" strains (with a 1/1 ratio of THC/CBD) was more cloudy on this issue*.

*There was controversy for decades about whether or not the old Hash strains could cause schizophrenia in teenage genetically susceptible heavy users. Questionnaire based studies, such as the Swedish one on 17-year-old military conscripts begun in 1957 and followed up 30 years later, were criticised because of the assumptions of the researchers, the other lifestyle variables of the subjects (which could not be controlled for) and the fact that they may have had difficulty differentiating separate episodes of temporary cannabis psychosis from schizophrenia. Clearly, the new evidence is much more concrete than that.
 
In a foreign country with a generally libertarian attitude to life, which frankly is far from the case here. It is logical to assume that in a legal jurisdiction (run by responsible legislators), like the UK appears to be, regulations would be introduced that would seek to minimise the harm caused by the use of legal cannabis products.

There's an obvious flaw here though, cannabis is already illegal and the stronger stuff is already widespread, you risk not only normalising/popularising cannabis use but it doesn't necessarily mean the stronger stuff just goes away.

Secondary to that there are the health risks, both the fact it's often used alongside tobacco and also the previously mentioned mental health issues... while strong strains might have higher risk it's not like long-term use of controlled/legal cannabis which we say try to regulate to avoid the strongest strains won't also carry these risks to some extent too.

Medical use - fine, decriminalise small quantities used by individuals but legalisaiton doesn't seem like a good idea.
 
This is a genuine test and pivotal moment in Dowies legacy, does he read all that and tap out like us mere mortals would or does he rise to the challenge and come out swinging with a 2000 word essay, showing once again experience is everything and securing his legacy as OCUKs pound for pound word salad champ.

Joshua v Ngannou may be about to start by the true heads know this is the fight for the ages.

I may have drunk one too many shandy’s before writing this
 
There's an obvious flaw here though, cannabis is already illegal and the stronger stuff is already widespread, you risk not only normalising/popularising cannabis use but it doesn't necessarily mean the stronger stuff just goes away.

Secondary to that there are the health risks, both the fact it's often used alongside tobacco and also the previously mentioned mental health issues... while strong strains might have higher risk it's not like long-term use of controlled/legal cannabis which we say try to regulate to avoid the strongest strains won't also carry these risks to some extent too.

Medical use - fine, decriminalise small quantities used by individuals but legalisaiton doesn't seem like a good idea.


You can buy LEGAL medical cannabis that is stronger than anything you will find on the streets
 
This is a genuine test and pivotal moment in Dowies legacy, does he read all that and tap out like us mere mortals would or does he rise to the challenge and come out swinging with a 2000 word essay, showing once again experience is everything and securing his legacy as OCUKs pound for pound word salad champ.

I think ttaskmaster has already taken over that title in two dog-related threads but I think Mapel Leaf may have just beaten him too + his responses here are rather better thought out here.

I don't have a huge issue with Cannabis and do think medical use + decriminalisation is the way forwards but there clearly are (mental)health risks backed up in multiple papers and there's no getting away from that no matter how much text is written in response.

You can buy LEGAL medical cannabis that is stronger than anything you will find on the streets

I'm not sure about that - it's going to be more likely to be consistent for sure but what are you basing that on/referring to? It's not like strong strains aren't available.

Some cannabis-based treatments are available on the NHS at least but don't have much THC


And of course, they warn about the schizophrenia risk there too. Cannabis is available via private prescription in the UK too but you can get pretty strong strains illegally - is there some particular treatment that requires high THC or something?
 
I think ttaskmaster has already taken over that title in two dog-related threads but I think Mapel Leaf may have just beaten him too + his responses here are rather better thought out here.

I don't have a huge issue with Cannabis and do think medical use + decriminalisation is the way forwards but there clearly are (mental)health risks backed up in multiple papers and there's no getting away from that no matter how much text is written in response.



I'm not sure about that - it's going to be more likely to be consistent for sure but what are you basing that on/referring to? It's not like strong strains aren't available.

Some cannabis-based treatments are available on the NHS at least but don't have much THC


And of course, they warn about the schizophrenia risk there too. Cannabis is available via private prescription in the UK too but you can get pretty strong strains illegally - is there some particular treatment that requires high THC or something?

Cannabis testing is like debt investment graders in 2008.

You will get a 20% reading if your a big grower no matter what, if that tech has to rub 80% of what you send them on a screen and sprinkle the crystals on the 20% left to get that reading they will.

When testing and regulation paid for by the seller and not the buyer it becomes advertising not testing

"is there some particular treatment that requires high THC or something?"

From a production view its the same as why illegal Cannabis got stronger, more money per square ft, more profit per watt.

It's much easier to manage finicky plant health than buy more space.
 
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Try looking on medbudwiki, and goto the pharmacies section. As dodgy as that site might look its all legal, sign up to a clinic, bypass the NHS

I wasn't questioning whether you could get it on private prescription but rather the claim about it being stronger than anything on the streets - wasn't clear what that was referring to or whether it was some specific treatment requiring high THC or something.
 
Cannabis testing is like debt investment graders in 2008.

You will get a 20% reading if your a big grower no matter what, if that tech has to rub 80% of what you send them on a screen and sprinkle the crystals on the 20% left to get that reading they will.

When testing and regulation paid for by the seller and not the buyer it becomes advertising not testing

"is there some particular treatment that requires high THC or something?"

From a production view its the same as why illegal Cannabis got stronger, more money per square ft, more profit per watt.

It's much easier to manage finicky plant health than buy more space.

You gonna have to back up that claim with proof if you expect people to believe it.

Do you have any evidence at all to back up your claim(s) that labs just spit out whatever number they like for "advertising purposes" ?
 
You gonna have to back up that claim with proof if you expect people to believe it.

Do you have any evidence at all to back up your claim(s) that labs just spit out whatever number they like for "advertising purposes" ?
Yeah sure go speak to any grower check out any growing forum, group, convention (there's a big one in South England every year.

Heck get yourself a sample and go send it off to a tester.

But just like in 2006 before the financial crash there isn't exactly a peer reviewed study that there's an issue.
 
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