Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

Glaucus · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:06

knip said:
Surely it is if the team have TOLD both drivers to turn their engines down, one driver sticks to that and does as he's told, and the other does not?

Just saying

No, not at all. There is not one single rule, saying team orders have to be followed, it is an internal matter. In no way, at all, can it be said he cheated. He simply didnt.
He's no1 driver and so RBR will not do anything. This is the perks of being a great driver.

deuse · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:08

knip said:
Surely it is if the team have TOLD both drivers to turn their engines down, one driver sticks to that and does as he's told, and the other does not?

Just saying

Don't bother knip

drunkenmaster · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:08

rpg said:
What do you mean the right amount of fuel? Hamilton caned it earlier on in the race resulting in below required levels come race end, forcing him to slow down (team forecasted he wouldn't last). Rosberg drove more consistently, and quite clearly was faster overall. It's not the first time Hamilton has prematurely depleted his fuel levels.

Its also not even close to the first time multiple teams have run differing strategys in cars, its 99% likely that the team underfueled expecting safety cars and rain, and didn't do this to the other car, splitting the strategy, multiple other teams have done this. Its possible he just burnt off too much fuel, its very likely in a race that usually has showers, that he was underfueled for a reason.

Rosberg actually spent a hell of a lot of the race in clean air, which is a major advantage, this happened a couple years ago a lot, Hamilton is fighting with the guys infront because he's just faster, but ultimately it hurts the tires and likely costs more fuel. Had he cruised around at exactly Rosberg's pace, 1 second ahead of Rosberg, Hamilton's tyres would have been fresher and faster throughout the race and Rosbergs would have worn at a higher rate. Its very frustrating, the current design of cars, no refueling and tyre wear mean changing strategies isn't particularly useful and trying to pass the guys infront hurts you rather than helps.

El_Watcher · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:08

Did the stewards have a siesta during the race? There were several unsafe releases in the pits, only one of them caught their eye, and that was immediately said to be decided after the race.

I thought they only delayed decisions to post race when it happens within the last few laps, not in the first 15 :confused:

Freakbro · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:08

knip said:
Surely it is if the team have TOLD both drivers to turn their engines down, one driver sticks to that and does as he's told, and the other does not?

Just saying

Its not cheating in the sense of breaking F1 rules

Its not very sporting of him to his team mate, but as Glaucus said, most top sportsmen have that killer instinct, its what makes you a winner.

knip · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:09

Glaucus said:
No, not at all. There is not one single rule, saying team orders have to be followed, it is an internal matter. In no way, at all, can it be said he cheated. He simply didnt.
He's no1 driver and so RBR will not do anything. This is the perks of being a great driver.

We're gonna have to disagree then, but if my boss told me to do something, and everybody but one person out of my team didn't do it, words would be had.

Glaucus · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:10

knip said:
We're gonna have to disagree then, but if my boss told me to do something, and everybody but one person out of my team didn't do it, words would be had.

Is there an FIA investigation, has he broken any rules? No and no.
There is simply nothing to disagree on you and others are wrong, he did not break any rule at all and it can not be said he cheated.

You and me are not number1 in the company, we have not made that company and given it the success. RBR won't do anything at all.

smr · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:10

So frustrating for Jenson today. Would have been a good haul of points today if not for the pit stop calamity.

Oh well happens to everyone at some point in the season...

Positives are that the car has improved greatly compared to just a week ag and now a good amount of time to improve further before China.

Flibster · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:11

It's Ted Time!

smr · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:11

And it was nice to see Ferrari make such a stupid decision to not call in alonso... what were they thinking!??!

rpg · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:11

deuse said:
When was that? sorry I can't remember

One of many: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/hamilton-left-frustrated-by-crazy-race-as-fuel-problem-puts-him-fourth-2311681.html

Glaucus · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:12

smr said:
So frustrating for Jenson today. Would have been a good haul of points today if not for the pit stop calamity.

Oh well happens to everyone at some point in the season...

Positives are that the car has improved greatly compared to just a week ag and now a good amount of time to improve further before China.

Yep, they reckon a big improvment in china, I hope so. Mercedes seem to be rather handy, be nice if JB can get in the mix as well.

What happened to lotus though.

Matteh · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:13

I disagree with what Vettel did from a moral point of view, but he didn't 'cheat'. The rules say team orders are allowed, not that they must be obeyed.

I think for a lot of fans that kind of behaviour can leave a sour taste and I include myself in that - I don't like Vettels attitude and the way he appears to feel entitled to race positions - but that's one of the many reasons I would never make it as a competitive racing driver, much less one that has won multiple world titles.

Glaucus · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:14

Matteh said:
I disagree with what Vettel did from a moral point of view, but he didn't 'cheat'. The rules say team orders are allowed, not that they must be obeyed.

I think for a lot of fans that kind of behaviour can leave a sour taste and I include myself in that - I don't like Vettels attitude and the way he appears to feel entitled to race positions - but that's one of the many reasons I would never make it as a competitive racing driver, much less one that has won multiple world titles.

Well put.

Jono8 · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:15

I don't like Vettel and i think what he did was un-sporting but he didnt cheat. I don't understand how anyone can think he actually 'cheated'.

Kenai · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:15

Glaucus said:
it can not be said he cheated.

Cheat
Verb
Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination

I'd say he acted dishonestly in order to gain an advantage, wouldn't you?

deuse · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:16

rpg said:
One of many: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-as-fuel-problem-puts-him-fourth-2311681.html

To me that is the teams fault for not putting enough fuel in. Bring back refuelling I say.

Anyway well done Merc let's keep this up

Merlin5 · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:16

knip said:
Surely it is if the team have TOLD both drivers to turn their engines down, one driver sticks to that and does as he's told, and the other does not?

Just saying

+1. I said earlier that Vettel is indispensable to RB. He is, but he still effectively cheated. He didn't break official F1 rules and won legally. Nevertheless he cheated against his teammate when his teammate had already turned his engine down after orders. Even F1 kitty acknowledges that.

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Glaucus · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:16

Kenai said:
Cheat
Verb
Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination

I'd say he acted dishonestly in order to gain an advantage, wouldn't you?

No, he did not break any rules, end off.

Kenai · 24 Mar 2013 at 11:17

Glaucus said:
No, he did not break any rules, end off.

Yes, cheating isn't just about rules. Denied.