Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

drunkenmaster:

I'm not quite sure I follow - you want the refuelling put back in, but say you're not a fan of overtaking in the pitstops. That's the very reason it was taken out, and it worked pretty well. Put the fuel stops back in, and you'll just go back to folk short filling and leapfrogging each other every pitstop.

And F1 is all about the long game - it's not a sprint race, it's always been more of an endurance formula. Right the way back to the 1950s the races have been about preserving the car and the tyres. It wasn't flat out from flag to flag - That's why Fangio and Clark were so great, they had that magic ability to go fast AND be gentle on the car so as not to break it. The new tyres are nothing different. The difference now is that with over six decades of combined experience, the teams knew literally all tree was to know about the tyres and became experts at managing them. Making them artificially fragile has effectively put things back to where they were I think.
 
Tenzo said:
It's a team sport as well, you cannot ignore that fact. Imagine if Seb had made a meal of the overtake and crashed, what does that do to the team?
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I'm not ignoring it at all.
It's a sport of two Alfa, rob will not care much, they got a one two and the driver with the far better chance of winning the drivers (which gets the most press, and as such best for the team) chamiponship.

When your number one you can do what you want.
Name one multi world champion who hasn't done such things? And leave the rosé tinted glasses in the bag.
They are all like it, you have to be, to win in this sport.

It would give the team an even better reason to play team orders in Vets favour. Vet shows his hands through brute force, team lessons and keeps him number one, or hell take it anyway. He did exactly what he has and should have done.

Robert in the same token did exactly what he should have done, he is not a champion and is a second driver. The only way he could go against team orders, is if he constantly did it and trounced Hamilton.
 
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Glaucus said:
I'm not ignoring it at all.
It's a sport of two Alfa, rob will not care much, they got a one two and the driver with the far better chance of winning the drivers (which gets the most press, and as such best for the team) chamiponship.

When your number one you can do what you want.
Name one multi world champion who hasn't done such things? And leave the rosé tinted glasses in the bag.
They are all like it, you have to be, to win in this sport.
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I know why Seb did it and agree that all drivers should be like that.

It's the same reason Hamilton fights tooth and nail for places and forum warriors criticise him for not yielding.

My only gripe is that Webber was not in the same mental position, due to following the team orders while Vettel ignored. That said, Vettel probably would have won in a clean fight.
 
Lol, Vettel said he wasn't aware of the team order and was shocked when he found out after the race.

Thing is, what he did (assuming he actually did know about the order) was effectively cheating in the same way it would be seen as cheating when a safety car is on track and drivers aren't allowed to overtake. The only way someone could get penalised in a situation like this would be if the official race marshalls acknowledged all disobeyed team orders and took action on those.
 
Love how the likes of Red Bull and Lewis slated Ferrari in Germany 2010 saying how they would never use team orders etc etc yet here we are 2nd race of the season and they are all at it :D
 
Glaucus said:
Why? So he can't win races and be a midfield driver. He close to the retirement why would you want that. At least at RBR he can win races and be at the sharp end fighting.
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Because then he wouldn't have to put up with the bull**** he gets thrown at him due to RBR's obsession with golden boy.

At least then he'd be able to breathe and not have to step aside all the time. He can't win races if Finger is anywhere near him, we've seen that today.

I know i'd rather be able to look myself in the mirror and say I did my best, rather than I did what I was allowed to do.
 
deuse said:
If Lewis had the right amount of fuel then I don't think so.
You forgot about when jenson was told to hold station and he did not, maclaren a horrid mid field team ;)
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What do you mean the right amount of fuel? Hamilton caned it earlier on in the race resulting in below required levels come race end, forcing him to slow down (team forecasted he wouldn't last). Rosberg drove more consistently, and quite clearly was faster overall. It's not the first time Hamilton has prematurely depleted his fuel levels.
 
Stop with the cheating nonsense, it is not cheating. At no point did he break any rules. It isn't even remotely like SC. stop posting rubbish.
 
knip said:
I actually hope he does. Have done for a couple of years now. :)
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Aye, but don't stay and cry like a girl when you get **** on.

But in this case it actually wasn't the team favouring Vettel, not like Merc favoured Lewis, it was Vettel breaking team orders to win.
 
Tenzo said:
I know why Seb did it and agree that all drivers should be like that.

It's the same reason Hamilton fights tooth and nail for places and forum warriors criticise him for not yielding.

My only gripe is that Webber was not in the same mental position, due to following the team orders while Vettel ignored. That said, Vettel probably would have won in a clean fight.
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Well, Vettel had gotten VERY close previously in the race and couldn't pass, ultimately the DRS didn't seem too strong on the Red Bull or the Merc as it helped neither overtake the guy infront, until Hamilton/WEbber had turned their engines down.

The real question is, is this all BS, has Horner in a team meeting told everyone that Multi 21 means Webber stays ahead, BUT privately told Seb "yeah, if I say Multi 21 on the radio, go for it". I don't know, hard to know who is at fault so to say there. I do think Vettel would have had a harder time closing to within passing range and wouldn't have gained nearly as much down that straight if Webber was at full power and pushing hard into and out of the corner before.


Button banging on about "knowing" he could finish on the podium. Firstly had Button really been a danger than Rosberg would have passed Hamilton, and Rosberg would have been on the podium, secondly, Button didn't finish the race, so which is it, you're cheating to get a "free" change to a new gearbox or something else, or your car was completely fine, can't be both, lastly we have no idea if Button would have had to slow down for fuel.

I hate the guys attitude, whenever something happens to his car he proclaims he was on for major points, with zero proof, and when he drives and is rubbish, its never his fault.
 
knip said:
Because then he wouldn't have to put up with the bull**** he gets thrown at him due to RBR's obsession with golden boy.

At least then he'd be able to breathe and not have to step aside all the time. He can't win races if Finger is anywhere near him, we've seen that today.

I know i'd rather be able to look myself in the mirror and say I did my best, rather than I did what I was allowed to do.
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Vet won't be behind him all the time, es managed to win several races at RBR. He can't hope for a better drive in F1 he's at the best team he could be in. He will retire from that team and would be mad if he did anything else.
Moving him to another team isn't going to make him win championships, he wouldn't even likely win another race.
 
Mr Men said:
Love how the likes of Red Bull and Lewis slated Ferrari in Germany 2010 saying how they would never use team orders etc etc yet here we are 2nd race of the season and they are all at it :D
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Whilst that is undoubtably true, you have to remember that in Germany 2010 team orders were illegal so it's a little bit different in this case.
 
Glaucus said:
Stop with the cheating nonsense, it is not cheating. At no point did he break any rules. It isn't even remotely like SC. stop posting rubbish.
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Surely it is if the team have TOLD both drivers to turn their engines down, one driver sticks to that and does as he's told, and the other does not?

Just saying :)
 
rpg said:
What do you mean the right amount of fuel? Hamilton caned it earlier on in the race resulting in below required levels come race end, forcing him to slow down (team forecasted he wouldn't last). Rosberg drove more consistently, and quite clearly was faster overall. It's not the first time Hamilton has prematurely depleted his fuel levels.
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When was that? sorry I can't remember
 
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