Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

Glaucus said:
It is in sport. Denied

2) To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.

To F1 rules, he de not break any rules or cheat. It really is as simple as that.
Click to expand...

He broke his team rules though... Semantics at the end of the day. Vettel is just a *****.
 
Mr Men said:
Those saying Vettel is a cheat, does that mean Lewis cheated Nico out of a podium and is also a cheat?
Click to expand...

Did Lewis act dishonestly to gain an advantage?

Debatable, as both drivers were just doing as they were told. In the Vettel case, he deliberately disregarded an agreement and an order and so can very clearly be said to have acted dishonestly to gain an advantage.

Lewis certainly gave off the impression that he felt he had (perhaps indirectly) cheated Nico out of a podium though, given his comments on the podium that he felt Nico ought to have been up there instead of him.
 
What a great race, Vettel did exactly what any racing driver should do just a pity Rosberg didn't do the same.. they are racing drivers they want to win. I don't tune in every race to watch a parade. Ross Brawn said to Rosberg that Hamilton could go a lot faster but he is being held back, that wasn't true, Hamilton couldn't go any quicker because he would have run out of fuel, Rosberg wasn't in that position and could have gone quicker. Really feel sorry for Rosberg, at this stage of the championship it is already more than clear he is the 2nd driver.
 
Kenai said:
Lewis certainly gave off the impression that he felt he had (perhaps indirectly) cheated Nico out of a podium though, given his comments on the podium that he felt Nico ought to have been up there instead of him.
Click to expand...

Indeed he did, so he knows he got an advantage from team orders to beat Nico which in my eyes is fine if they want Lewis as no1 then go for it.
 
Duke said:
Quite possible - he was running about 10 seconds or so behind the Mercs until the pitstop fail, who then had to crawl the last dozen laps to save fuel.
Click to expand...

Yet he stopped because of a "bald tyre" and Perez, rather than do 2 slow laps did a pitstop because he had a bad tyre. Likelyhood is Button had to do another pitstop anyway, particularly if he was pushing forwards, and Rosberg seemed like he could go a lot faster also.

its button's usual thing, when something stops him finishing, he gives it large about what he would have done. He still had to pass Hamilton and Rosberg, might have had to save fuel himself and quite possible had to do an extra pitstop.. but he said he KNEW for certain he would have finished on the podium, Button is and always has been a smarmy little ****. Alonso wouldn't have said he would have certainly fininished on the podium in the same position, most/all other drivers wouldn't of, Button talks crap when he doesn't finish a race and blames everything/anyone else when he does finish and is slow.

rpg said:
Complete speculation. There is no evidence that Hamilton was underfuelled versus Rosberg. In fact, Brawn alluded to the fact that they cut it fine on both cars "We were tight on fuel, the pace was a lot stronger in the race than we anticipated and we were tight on fuel and we needed to make sure we didn’t overdo it." A team bets on maximum success, not 50/50.

It was quite clear at the end, that Rosberg had more in the tank versus Lewis. To say Hamilton is not harder on fuel versus other drivers does doesn't tie in with today's happenings, and previous. He was harder on fuel versus Jensen, and it looks like he is versus Rosberg too. Not necessarily a bad thing though, as personally, I don't rate fuel management as one of the criteria necessary to be a top racing driver.
Click to expand...

It was clear that Rosberg had more in the tank, but you're also saying he's harder on fuel based on today suggests that he wasn't underfueled more, you can't say that just as I can't and didn't say for a fact that Hamilton was underfuelled more than Rosberg. However teams consistently split their strategies in multiple races, if it showered down like crazy today, almost anyone could have won the race, pit first onto wet's and get lucky, someone 50 seconds back can be in the lead a lap later, or someone stays out on drys when everyone jumps in for inters, again, can be leading when were almost at the back a lap before.

Of course, do Merc have a read on the fuel level throughout the race, yes, yet they didn't go "zomg, he's got no fuel, slow down now", they waited till later because.... imho, they were expecting a shower or two, a safety car or some slower laps and they didn't come. If Hamilton was merely using too much fuel too fast, they can and would have told him VERY early on, they only wouldn't believe he was using too much fuel if they expected something external to change that. Almost every time he's been underfuelled(outside of qualifying), its when rain was predicted and didn't appear.

For me, the majority of races he isn't holding back massively to save fuel, its happened a few times, and usually if not always in races with very high potential for rain.... if he was just harder on fuel, he'd have a problem in almost every single race, for me thats why it indicates why they underfuelled him.
 
Last edited:
I guess that with the Lewis/Nico situation, the difference is that whilst Lewis gained an advantage through team orders, he didn't do it in a directly unsporting way. I don't think it's any more or less 'right' though.
 
Just out of interest, say Lewis actually stopped in the McLaren pit, could they take his tyres off and leave him there? :D Anything in the rule book? lol
 
Matteh said:
I guess that with the Lewis/Nico situation, the difference is that whilst Lewis gained an advantage through team orders, he didn't do it in a directly unsporting way. I don't think it's any more or less 'right' though.
Click to expand...

I don't think what they did was wrong, they didn't ask Rosberg to slow down so Hamilton could get ahead, but it wasn't great. Ultimately it was a bit dumb as neither driver is massively happy, and clearly Hamilton wouldn't have had a problem with Rosberg being 3rd, the team in general would be happier, no one could complain about it and the team get 3rd and 4th either way.

I still don't have an awful lot of sympathy for Webber, pee'd off or not, he did what Schumacher did to Rubens pretty much, which was almost shove him into the wall which was completely over the top. He's completely right to be annoyed, in Red Bull's case, Merc were dropping so far back that even if they lost time later on it wouldn't really be an issue, it was silly to call them to slow down so early, had Webber stayed fast and Vettel failed to get close enough(like the rest of the race) its likely Vettel's tyres would have gone off first(like the rest of the race) and they wouldn't have needed team orders at all. Ultimately the team orders is what allowed Vettel to get so close to create the problem in the first place.

The real question in my mind is did they call "team orders" to slow Webber down on purpose and intended for Vettel to just keep going for it, did they intentionally mislead Webber to let Vettel get ahead, or did the team genuinely want it to finish as it was and Vettel was justa knob head. I think either situation is very possible.

Its pretty funny, if both team heads had stfu, not a single driver, nor viewer would be unhappy, and by giving the orders, all 4 drivers are pee'd off, and most of the viewers :p
 
Last edited:
Interesting race to say the least.

Team orders again causing controversy.

Vettel was in a damned if you do, and damned if you don't situation. He wants to win the championship but it was at the cost of screwing Webber over. If he yields, he loses the points and race win, but retains harmony and probably gets a bit more respect. If he goes against the order then he gets the points and race win.

It all depended on what he values more, people liking him or winning things. He made his bed today. He'll no doubt be one of the best on paper, but at this rate - no peoples champion.

Hamilton on the other hand was in a win win situation really. Rosberg was faster and should have got the position. If Hamilton yields, he is gracious but a victim, but Rosberg would have been a villain for breaching team orders. As it stands, Hamilton is the benefactor (unwilling or otherwise) of a team order.

Webber is the biggest loser here. Unquestionable 2nd driver in the twilight of his career, robbed by his team mate. He'll be gone next year, both from dislike from Dr Frankenstein, speaking out against the team, and because everyone loves Webber, he makes Vettel look like the bad guy by default. Vettel however, continues to do himself no favours.

A non-descript race really. No idea how the McLarens and Force Indias would have done, Renault out of sorts - really difficult to gauge where everyone is.
 
Gayjin said:
Webber is the biggest loser here. Unquestionable 2nd driver in the twilight of his career, robbed by his team mate. He'll be gone next year, both from dislike from Dr Frankenstein, speaking out against the team, and because everyone loves Webber, he makes Vettel look like the bad guy by default. Vettel however, continues to do himself no favours.

A non-descript race really. No idea how the McLarens and Force Indias would have done, Renault out of sorts - really difficult to gauge where everyone is.
Click to expand...


Personally i dislike Webber a lot, he's been in this exact second driver situation throughout his time at Red Bull, he could have left at any time he wanted. He has stayed their playing victim rather than move on and be a number one at a worse team. HE CHOSE THIS, then complains about it, but HE CHOSE THIS. Zero sympathy in those terms, he's also a really awful talker, ummm, errr,, errm, ummm, errr, hello. I can have sympathy in the first year he's a number 2 and not liking it, but not when he stays for the paycheque and then complains after most races, this is precisely what he signed up for and precisely what he knows will happen then complains when it does.

Grow some balls, leave the team, prove yourself elsewhere.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom