Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19
- Thread starter Duke
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Well, really enjoyed that. Shame to see Webber beaten that way, but made for some awesome post race entertainment. Hamilton really didn't seem too happy either, especially with that camera man.
Gutted for Button with that pitstop, especially seeing the laps he was putting in afterwards. Although not podium threatening yet, that McLaren looked a completely different car to the one in Australia. Good to see.
Alonso. What on earth was he thinking not coming straight in for a new nose? Surely that must have been Ferrari telling him to stay out, he's not normally the sort of driver to be completely reckless like that.
Not sure why Mercedes didn't let Rosberg pass Hamilton. Sure, Hamilton had an issue with low fuel, but why not let the car with ample fuel past to start challenging the Red Bulls if their tyres started going? I understand them wanting to get a solid finish, but it would have been just as solid with Rosberg ahead.
Bianchi had another good race finishing in 13th in front of both Caterhams and his team mate. It'll be interesting to see how he goes in the coming races.
What were Force India playing at? Some serious work to be done there before China.
Gutted for Button with that pitstop, especially seeing the laps he was putting in afterwards. Although not podium threatening yet, that McLaren looked a completely different car to the one in Australia. Good to see.
Alonso. What on earth was he thinking not coming straight in for a new nose? Surely that must have been Ferrari telling him to stay out, he's not normally the sort of driver to be completely reckless like that.
Not sure why Mercedes didn't let Rosberg pass Hamilton. Sure, Hamilton had an issue with low fuel, but why not let the car with ample fuel past to start challenging the Red Bulls if their tyres started going? I understand them wanting to get a solid finish, but it would have been just as solid with Rosberg ahead.
Bianchi had another good race finishing in 13th in front of both Caterhams and his team mate. It'll be interesting to see how he goes in the coming races.
What were Force India playing at? Some serious work to be done there before China.
He was robbed of the title by a more determined driver, which just happened to be his team mate. Yes he had been advised to turn down the engine but Vettel made it quite clear from the start that he was not going to listen to that. Webber had plenty of time to react and actually "race" to keep his position, the fact that he could not keep his position was his fault.
Vettel is not my favourite driver but I respect his determination and if he gets the job done good on him.
I agree with you. When I say wrong, I think I mean more from a personal point of view. I want to see the fastest drivers getting the wins and podiums, so I don't really agree with what we saw today from either of the teams involved. I want to see racing and believe the results at the end of the race should reflect where the drivers deserve to be, on merit. Team orders don't really foster that.
Having said that, I can't really argue with it, because team orders are legal and the teams as a whole obviously have their own plans and ideas to stick to and have other considerations that they take in to account.
When you say he's complaining about being #2, I assume you're referring to a different incedent? He hasn't complained about being #2 today, he's complained that they were both issued orders, he followed them, Vettel didn't...
I'm not his biggest fan, but I think he handled himself very well given the situation. Maybe you've never been in this kind of situation, but you have to choose your words VERY carefully and that's all he did.
Soldato
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Can't wait to watch this later.
Man of Honour
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Watching this now. What a stupid/dangerous decision not to call Alonso in.
Sorry if it's already been posted but:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/motorsport/07/11/motorsport.f1.webber.vettel/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/motorsport/07/11/motorsport.f1.webber.vettel/index.html
Can't wait to watch this later.
Brilliant, should have lobbed the water at him instead
A nearly 2 year old article?
Soldato
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I'm in agreement with both sides of the coin here.
Ultimately, Mercedes underfuelled both cars but they knew Lewis would be harder on fuel, so they must have known that there was a pretty decent chance that they would be next to each other in the final parts of the race. Team orders provided the counterbalance. If they had both started with full fuel on board then it would have been a bit more level but that's taking the argument down the route of what constitues merit? I'm not sure that managing tyres and fuel in the current format IS a true test of merit but those are the rules and for as long as those rules exist and the teams are actively manipulating that, we should expect to see teams manipulating the drivers to achieve success for the team.
If you look back at Force India, they were making a HUGE push a few seasons ago to be a "Page 1" team, they needed to beat their contructor rivals to get the cash they needed to progress - I suspect that for most teams, the constructors standing really dictates a huge part of their financial viability and so team principals will continue to push for two compromised results (which is what Merc and RBR both had today) rather than maybe getting a good team result, having one awesome result or nothing at all.
Refuelling was banned after a number of fairly scary incidents and it did come in as a package that has made F1 much more commercially viable than it was previously. In many ways it is a shame that we no longer have quali-spec engines, hot laps on tyres that'd be down to the canvas after the in-lap and the ever-present spectre of someone's race/championship going boom with their engine at any moment. What we have instead is a tactical battle that is, in many ways, too dense for the average fan to understand in the depth to appreciate what is really going on but is a sport that is more likely to be around than it otherwise would have been.
I'm not sure what the state of the sport would be now if we had refuelling, unlimited tyres, turbo-era power levels, unchecked aero development and pre-Senna safety standards. Team orders would certainly still be a factor even with all of that...
Bit of a ramble there but I do miss the days when drivers could go out and break lap records 11 times in 15 laps without then having to granny it around for fear of running out of fuel...
Man of Honour
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That is hilarious Hamilton going into the mclaren garage!
I disagree with you about the PR stuff - I think he comes across well and quite likable at that - typical Aussie
As for his team choice - he's in the twilight of his career, I don't see him changing team and dragging a nail of a car around trying to prove himself at this stage of his life - whilst he has the choice that is. If he gets the boot (which I'm fairly sure will happen next year), he'll have to if he doesn't want to retire.
If I were him, I would stay at RBR. You're pretty much guaranteed a good car and a chance to go with it. Sure he is de facto 2nd, but that doesn't mean he can't moan if he gets mugged.
I won't blame a racer for racing, what Vettel did is his business, racers race at the end of the day. But he did it at the expense of everyone else. He just can't moan when no-one wants to put him on a pedestal and everyone groans when he goes on pole or wins.
Why should Webber rise to his disobeying his team if Vettel continued to gas it? - it would make him just as bad.
To me, he was mature and level headed and trusted that either Vettel would fall in line or the team would control him. Naive perhaps, especially given history but even so it was the by the book thing to do.
To be honest, nearly putting him in the wall was bad enough, no doubt red mist coming down to try and teach Vettel a lesson. Unacceptable as well of course.
Indeed most of the top drivers are not nice people.
They are ruthless and selfish, wanting whats best for them and to hell with everybody else.
I understand that team-orders were at play today (which is part and parcel of F1), but why isn't anybody mentioning the championship?
Vettel has now reached top spot in the WDC.
RBR had the fastest car today.
RBR are now leading the constructors' title.
Alonso got 0 pts.
Vettel is now 22 pts ahead of his main championship rival, Alonso.
It's a long season, but I've seen enough of Vettel to know that a 22 point lead is going to be difficult for any driver to overhaul, especially when RBR now appear to have the fastest car.
My pre-season prediction was Vettel to win the title, followed by Alonso. I've seen nothing so far, to change my prediction.
Are you on drugs?
Alonso needs to finish 1st or 2nd in the next race that Vettel retires from (which over an entire season is likely) and then out-score him once or twice depending.
That is very likely to happen, given we are talking about Fernando Alonso.
What if vettel crashes next race/retires and Alonso wins??
What a strange thing to say after two races.
Maybe but the pace alonso still showed was frankly stunning. I guess that's why they considered it rather than when you see a driver stating to coast round to the pits with wing damage. I think they pushed their luck too far this time but it could have paid off with another couple of laps.