Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

Skeeter said:
The only reason we have teams of 2 cars in F1 is because that's what the regulations currently state.

It wasn't always like this, I don't think, and it isn't like this in most other motorsport series.

Splitting the teams to 1 car setups wouldn't really work, as teams would still hold stakes in other teams. We have that now anyway with teams in partnership, or sharing owners, or running other teams drivers in exchange for benefits.

But given that the WCC standings define the money the teams make from the sport, the regulations have to keep it fair, hence 2 cars per team. Having uneven numbers of cars across teams would mean this wouldn't work.
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im sure F1 has always been a team sport (back in the 50's the lead driver was able to take over the team mates car if his broke down, that's how fangio won one of his titles in 1956)
most mototsport has teams of 2 bikes n cars, but in F1 if you want a team you have to enter 2 cars, some others you can enter 1 car or bike but you aren't going to win the team championship doing that.
 
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Janesy B said:
I am of the opinion that anyone ignoring their team's instruction is in the wrong, this weekend Seb is in the wrong so he is the focus of the discussion. Webber has been compliant most times and the odd discretion doesn't give Vettel free reign to ignore the teams wishes.
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Still a 2-1 score towards Mark at the moment. I can't think of any other times where Vettel has not obeyed team orders relating to the 2 cars positions (he always ignores them telling him to chill at the end of the races, but that's a different matter).

Hardly justifies the mass of abuse Vettel is getting and the view that Mark is the innocent victim.
 
Skeeter said:
I had this chat with a mate last night. Its quite clear from quite early on (3 or 4 laps before he started to try and pass) that RBR knew Vettel was ignoring them from all the radio messages. But nobody bothered to tell Mark. I'd have thought they would have at least warned him.
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That would have meant Webber would be breaking rank too, I think he's happier to let things like this happen and put the light on Vettel.
 
I doubt the team even cared that Webber got over taken, just more upset in the way it was done. If Seb was that much quicker he could have done it in a much cleaner way without risking a puncture or a collision.
 
Janesy B said:
I doubt the team even cared that Webber got over taken, just more upset in the way it was done.
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I made this point earlier on.

Its a valid point, I doubt very much that the team are annoyed about the end result. Had they crashed it would be a very different story. Also if it was the other way around, as some people have suggested, I imagine the team would be hanging Mark out to dry. Imagine Helmut Marko if Webber had passed Vettel, he would have exploded! :p
 
Austrians ;)

But yeah, can't imagine it sat well with them. Rosberg should have been allowed past instead of having to coast behind Hamilton, from the on-board it was slightly embarrassing to see how below the car Rosberg was driving.
 
Janesy B said:
He said they were Germans, Lauda and Wolff are Austrian...
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Ah ok, makes sense, cheers. I missed a post.

Tbh Rosberg was clearly faster than Hamilton at the end, but did he have the fuel to pass and pull away from him had he been allowed too, or was he just trying to prove a point? Hamilton was only driving at that speed because he had to, was Rosberg only able to hassle him because he had driven the same slower pace for 15 laps?

Either way, Merc missed out on a potential win by not fueling the cars enough.
 
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Janesy B said:
They want Brawn out anyway so I suspect any decision made would have been criticised.
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It was a strange end to the race.

If SV had stayed behind Mark then there would have still been an uproar from the fans about team orders, and quite frankly it would have been a boring and dismal end to the race.

This is a race we pay to watch, not 4 cars race to the last pit stop then watch everyone put their feet up on the pit wall and coast home.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching Seb race with Mark and got goosebumps watching it, in Formula 1 there's nothing more exhilarating than watching wheel to wheel combat like that between two top drawer drivers.

The problem with it all, is that my overriding emotion lay firmly in disdain for the antics that Seb pulled over Mark. Mark was handicapped by the team, SV knew this and mugged him. No other way about it, no apology will treat that kind of deviance imo, and I don't think that Mark will ever forgive him for it deep down, especially if Mark doesn't win the WDC this year.

I cannot fathom why team orders have not been implemented in the following way:

That when both drivers within the team are in with a chance of winning the WDC team orders are banned.

Only when one driver within the team has a chance of winning the WDC are team orders enforced and allowed.

Any driver disobeying the team's orders are not fined (this won't affect them) but face a 10 place grid penalty for the next race.

It's simple, if I can come up with it I'm sure the FIA could impose it and spruce it up a bit too!
 
On balance, I'm glad vettel went rogue, he probably wont dare do it again but it was nice to see all the same.

I disagree about being unsporting, it wasn't unfair at all, unlike a couple of seasons ago when button slipped past hamilton (turkey was it?) and immediatley let him back past. Then it was (probably) accidental and Hamilton was not expecting any racing. To me, thats as obvious as the 'no orders' rules of the time allowed it to be.

Webber could have gone faster earlier, maybe keeping Vettel from striking distance but Webber knew he was racing long before he got past. Vettel was just willing to take the bigger risks.

I'd have liked it even more if he'd kept that massive set of balls after the race and just told the press he wanted it and nobody was going to take it from him.
 
smr said:
Any driver disobeying the team's orders are not fined (this won't affect them) but face a 10 place grid penalty for the next race.
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So your saying the FIA should regulate to ENFORCE team orders?

I think you might be on your own with that one :p
 
Skeeter said:
Ah ok, makes sense, cheers. I missed a post.

Tbh Rosberg was clearly faster than Hamilton at the end, but did he have the fuel to pass and pull away from him had he been allowed too, or was he just trying to prove a point? Hamilton was only driving at that speed because he had to, was Rosberg only able to hassle him because he had driven the same slower pace for 15 laps?

Either way, Merc missed out on a potential win by not fueling the cars enough.
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Lewis was in fuel saving mode since lap 25. You could tell by his driving style and the car's handling (missing apex's etc.) that it was all over the place and Rosberg was looking much healthier behind.

I'd say Lewis was in a much more critical stage of fuel saving compared to Nico which is why Nico should have been allowed past.

It was ridiculous of Merc not to allow Rosberg past, they (Brawn) quite clearly demonstrated how he can get his drivers to do what they want for him.

How hard would it have been to say to Lewis, "Let Nico past Lewis"... Lewis pulls over, then we see what Nico can do...

Smedley said exactly the same line to Massa in Aus, "go on then, let's see what you can do"... Rosberg says he can catch the RBRs... then why not let him go for it? Lewis ain't gonna stop him and it's not like there was going to be a repeat of the RBRs in Istanbul.

Brawn's restrictive stance made no sense whatsoever to me.
 
smr said:
Lewis was in fuel saving mode since lap 25. You could tell by his driving style and the car's handling (missing apex's etc.) that it was all over the place and Rosberg was looking much healthier behind.

I'd say Lewis was in a much more critical stage of fuel saving compared to Nico which is why Nico should have been allowed past.

It was ridiculous of Merc not to allow Rosberg past, they (Brawn) quite clearly demonstrated how he can get his drivers to do what they want for him.

How hard would it have been to say to Lewis, "Let Nico past Lewis"... Lewis pulls over, then we see what Nico can do...

Smedley said exactly the same line to Massa in Aus, "go on then, let's see what you can do"... Rosberg says he can catch the RBRs... then why not let him go for it? Lewis ain't gonna stop him and it's not like there was going to be a repeat of the RBRs in Istanbul.

Brawn's restrictive stance made no sense whatsoever to me.
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Rosberg did pass, 3 or 4 times. Hamilton always passed him straight back again.
 
smr said:
It was a strange end to the race.

If SV had stayed behind Mark then there would have still been an uproar from the fans about team orders, and quite frankly it would have been a boring and dismal end to the race.

This is a race we pay to watch, not 4 cars race to the last pit stop then watch everyone put their feet up on the pit wall and coast home.
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Seb was only close because of the team orders though, had Mark not backed it off as asked by the team then Seb was in no position to challenge for the win, if RBR had more of a threat from behind then they could not coast to bring it home so it's up to the rest to push them to the finish.
 
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