Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

Really enjoyed this, especially the end.

My views:

- Seb is a **** for doing that and completely igoring the orders and not understanding that Mark could have gone faster.
- Mark should have eased him onto the outside of the corner where he finally overtook him.
- Horner needs to have more authority; listen to how Braun acted.
- Team orders are pants and really should be banned all together!

And BRING on China, I'll be there to see it all :D
 
Skeeter said:
He did, at least twice.
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He fell for the old double DRS zone trick of passing in the first zone and ultimately losing out in the second - I thought only Toro Rosso drivers did that :p.

Be interesting to hear if those passes/repasses werent anything other than how ridiculous the overspeed is in those zones when you are so close together and as team mates youd end up given more than enough room to avoid a collision...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
This has certainly created an interesting debate. There are problems with F1 due to the above mentioned points. The teams are competing and managing so many things. A driver that does not follow orders is a liability. How on earth can you plan anything with non compliance from a driver? This simply does not work in F1 as it is too tactical. Vettel should be in serious trouble for this, but I suspect it will be more of a "Oh you little rascal" type treatment for Golden boy.

The only way to eradicate it realistically with the format we have now, is to ban team orders that specifically give team mates protection from racing each other. It would have to be worded carefully. But essentially, a rule that states that team orders are not allowed where they conflict with cars competing to the best of their ability, and/or providing protection to a team mate's position on the track etc. (Or something like that, I wrote that quickly and someone could do much better).

Also, in response to the people going back on things Webber has done in the past with regard to team orders, you are leaving out parts of the story to make him look bad. Mark had awful treatment from Redbull. This reached a climax around the time of I think the Silverstone GP when he announced on his win "not bad for a number 2 driver". That same season, when Vettel smashed up his front wing in practise or quali, was replaced with the only spare newly developed one...from Webbers own car.

Mark was always treated as the number 2 driver when Seb was around, somewhat unfairly when times did just not warrant it. I am personally against number 1/2 driver scenarios full stop. I think Redbull had a chance to show people that actually, we treat our drivers the same and Mark is not number 2 driver. Something along the lines of:

Redbull: Look watch... "Seb, maintain position"
Seb: "No boys!"
 
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Mr Men said:
Nico never made any more overtaking attempts after he was told to hold station.
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Nico = Held in high regard.
Seb = Now seems like a bit of a tool and whining baby.... Ohh I'm soo special, I'm Seb.

I look forward to grabbing some photos of him going off at the end of the DRS straight with some car damage and joining in with the cheers from the crowd :D:D
 
leaskovski said:
And we take one step closer to Godwins Law. Rapists are now involved, it is only a mater of time until the Nazi goose step into this thread.
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LOL.

I can't help but think the dislike that some people have for Vettel is clouding their judgement. Had Webber been the one who ignored team orders and overtaken Vettel, I'm sure people on this forum would've been commending him. But because Vettel was the faster driver and won (against team orders), he is getting a lot of flack.

I have read so many posts over the years on this forum, where people complain that drivers should be allowed to race. When a driver refuses to follow a team order and does it, people are up in arms. Imagine that.

For me, this is such a non-story, I can't believe it is getting this much press attention. For me, the big story is that Vettel extended his lead over Alonso by 25 pts. Vettel does not need a 25 pt boost to win the title

I can only hope that Ferrari continue to give Alonso a competitive car to make this year's title race a close battle.
 
-Ad- said:
Nico = Held in high regard.
Seb = Now seems like a bit of a tool and whining baby.... Ohh I'm soo special, I'm Seb.
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He is the only 3 time WDC in F1.
He is special...and a bit of whiner...but all top drivers are like this - Alonso, Senna, Mansell, Prost - they are/were all big in the whining department.
 
sunama said:
I can't help but think the dislike that some people have for Vettel is clouding their judgement. Had Webber been the one who ignored team orders and overtaken Vettel, I'm sure people on this forum would've been commending him. But because Vettel was the faster driver and won (against team orders), he is getting a lot of flack.
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You'd be wrong then.

People are annoyed because we want racing, not team orders, or 'racing' where one driver demands to be let past when he can't manage it on his own and then eventually mugs his team mate after he slows down due to team instructions.

The fact it was Vettel that did it only means it has engendered a dislike (or more of a dislike) for him and his character, not that people are only complaining because it was Vettel.

I'd be making the same comments if Rosberg had screwed Hamilton and just barged past, however Rosberg didn't behave like that and so hasn't received any flak. Mercedes themselves have received a bit of negative press though, given it seemed an unfair order to put the cars in while Rosberg appeared to be the longer fuelled car and could have finished considerably faster than Hamilton ultimately.
 
Kenai said:
You'd be wrong then.

People are annoyed because we want racing, not team orders, or 'racing' where one driver demands to be let past when he can't manage it on his own and then eventually mugs his team mate after he slows down due to team instructions.

The fact it was Vettel that did it only means it has engendered a dislike (or more of a dislike) for him and his character, not that people are only complaining because it was Vettel.

I'd be making the same comments if Rosberg had screwed Hamilton and just barged past, however Rosberg didn't behave like that and so hasn't received any flak. Mercedes themselves have received a bit of negative press though, given it seemed an unfair order to put the cars in while Rosberg appeared to be the longer fuelled car and could have finished considerably faster than Hamilton ultimately.
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If we want racing, why have people engendered a dislike for Seb, given that he was the one that wanted to race?
 
Telescopi said:
I'd have liked it even more if he'd kept that massive set of balls after the race and just told the press he wanted it and nobody was going to take it from him.
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This is my other issue. At least when schumi did things like this, whether people liked it or not, he didn't apologise because he was a ruthless racer to the core. It just makes Vettel look even worse as he squirms around on the podium half apologising. Probably doesn't do Red Bulls image any favours either.

Basher said:
If we want racing, why have people engendered a dislike for Seb, given that he was the one that wanted to race?
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What Vettel did wasn't racing. It is only racing if the other guy realises he is racing you and not holding station.
 
Basher said:
If we want racing, why have people engendered a dislike for Seb, given that he was the one that wanted to race?
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Because, as I am getting tired of explaining in this thread, mugging your team mate who has slowed down because you've both been told to cool it off and not race isn't 'racing' it's being a dick.

They had plenty of time to race and Vettel couldn't get the job done, all he could muster was demanding that his team 'make him get out the way'. When they were racing, Webber had Vettel's number.

He had his chance to race, he couldn't get the job done.

I have no interest in seeing people mugging their team mates instead of actual racing because they can't deliver the goods under actual race conditions.

The ideal scenario is that they are allowed to race until the flag but that's not how teams want to play things, especially with cars sat in 1 and 2 and no direct threat from behind.
 
Because Webber had slowed and let him go, looks at his laptimes. If Webber was even remotely trying to recatch him, he wouldn't have been lapping over 2 seconds slower than his fastest lap.

Who can blame him, if he had managed to get back past, the **** storm that would have awaited him would have been ridiculous.
 
Basher said:
Perhaps, but it was much more exciting to watch than the alternative.
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I'll give you that! I found Australia really boring, so this has spiced up the season nicely. Didn't expect so many team orders in the second race though, but it goes to show how concerned they all are about the tyres.

Skeeter said:
Vettel pulled away at a second a lap once he passed Webber.
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Is it that surprising when we know that webber was following team orders and wonder boy wasn't?
 
sunama said:
He is the only 3 time WDC in F1.
He is special...and a bit of whiner...but all top drivers are like this - Alonso, Senna, Mansell, Prost - they are/were all big in the whining department.
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He's been lucky being in the best car for a number of years, I still don't see him as being particularly special.

Although Alonso is a bit of a door knob, he's brilliant to watch and did soo well last year in an inferior car.

I'm hoping Mercedes can pull back the time the RBR cars and we can have some great racing. I really hope RBR don't stride off into the distance, first and foremost as a huge fan of F1. I love to see racing and I am worried these days that all this team orders malarky trying to bring cars home and the dominance of RBR is making some races a complete non-event.

Anyway, I've said my bits, now I need to go order some Yuans and finish buying things online ready for my flight out there on Thursday :p
 
-Ad- said:
He's been lucky being in the best car for a number of years, I still don't see him as being particularly special.

Although Alonso is a bit of a door knob, he's brilliant to watch and did soo well last year in an inferior car.

I'm hoping Mercedes can pull back the time the RBR cars and we can have some great racing. I really hope RBR don't stride off into the distance, first and foremost as a huge fan of F1. I love to see racing and I am worried these days that all this team orders malarky trying to bring cars home and the dominance of RBR is making some races a complete non-event.

Anyway, I've said my bits, now I need to go order some Yuans and finish buying things online ready for my flight out there on Thursday :p
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I genuinely feel that the fight will be between Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari this year with Mercedes struggling on development against those teams.
 
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