we do in some cases - especially where mass killings were taking place and were stopped
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- Thread starter omnomnom
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we do in some cases - especially where mass killings were taking place and were stopped
Al Qaeda were bombing the **** out of everyone before we went into Iraq, also Al Qaeda still exist as well as the rest.
So all you west blamers, Stewwy, Amp, Frekbro and the rest, if we had not gone into Iraq, what would the world be like right now?
As if i don't realise that?
Perhaps that's due to the American support for the House of Saud which was at odds with Osama Bin Laden and his family? You cant just look at Iraq and not look at the past hundred years of our pitiful foreign policy.
Its not just "if we hadn't gone into Iraq", its "if we hadn't promised Riyadh the world, promised Israel undying support, constant CIA coups in Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Lebanon..., abysmal failure in Iran over oil, back-stabbed our previous coup partners..." the list is nigh endless.
If the US hadn't, Russia would have just formed the same deals and underhand political games. Meh.
I knew one of you would then add another 70 years on to the time frame, so the past 100 years is the west's fault too, you really are ridiculous, instead of the truth you add more years on, utter laughable drivel.
Is that how far you will go to protect\deflect and defend Islamist Terrorists?
Should we keep going back in time? You will find the whole ME\Islam has been at war with everyone for ~1400 years.
Ahh yes, because understanding reality is now defending Terrorism, I feel it's you that is defending these terrorists by making more of them and justifying their existence.
Yet it's still a significant factor. The differences will generally be related to the specific version of Islam you follow, mixed in with how conservative the area you were brought up in was/is.
The contradiction is that you appear to refuse to see that complaints made about iam as a whole are just as visible in other religions. As I said before I think the biggest difficulty is differentiating the religious issues from the cultural issues - - a bigger issue with Islam than other religions due to the origin of many that practice it (i. I.e outside of the UK). The more conservative you are the more likely you are to follow/ the less savoury aspects of your religion and interpret texts rather more "conservatively".
Perhaps I'm projecting the views of people like SPG onto you, such as the feeling that Islam cannot coexist with western democracy - it can and it does. We can't look at an area like the Middle East, an area up until very recently (and still in some places) tribalism was/is the defining factor and an area stricken by violence from the last 30 years (both internal and externally influenced). Is religion the cause of that? Or is religion being used as a tool to/cover for the violence caused by other factors - largely power and influence?
Do not misunderstand me, I am not tarnishing them. It is just different, the stable regions are not ruled/governed like we are in the west but it is a great deal more authoritarian in some respects to ours, again not good or bad just vastly different. open criticisms for example of the ruling family(s) is not tolerated in any shape or form. In the west we call it oppression, in the ME its just how it is.
A Libyan in Libya posing with an AK doesn't really prove anything. theyre in practically every house over there - especially now.
Yeah - but increases the chance that they have access to explosives - obviously that avenue is just speculation at this point but wouldn't surprise me if the charge used was say from a mortar shell rather than home brew like TATP given the apparent capabilities of the device.
EDIT: I really should give the security services a break lol - my search history from the last 10 minutes even though its actually 3 completely unrelated subjects looks well dodgy - reading up on maximum current discharge on 18650 batteries (for a peltier project) while doing some light reading on PAX-21.
I find it curious that so many have taken Corbyns speech to mean complete intervention. It was obviously very purposely written not to say that. there is a world of difference between things like the intervention in Sierra Leone, the Falklands and Balkans. All were targeted interventions with a specific aim and an "exit plan" - whether that be crushing rebellion for an elected government, taking back an invaded piece of land or the protection of a specific group.
His speech was about the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and the intervention in Libya - all with large scale open non committal "regime change" aims, with no though to what would happen after we dismantled the government and security apparatus in those countries.
They are entirely different scales and types of intervention and have all caused instability in the regions they are in due to our failure to plan for the peace in those conflicts.
His speech was about the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and the intervention in Libya - all with large scale open non committal "regime change" aims, with no though to what would happen after we dismantled the government and security apparatus in those countries.
They are entirely different scales and types of intervention and have all caused instability in the regions they are in due to our failure to plan for the peace in those conflicts.
I'm not really sure what you mean by this but I don't believe other religions are beyond criticism either so am still not seeing a contradiction - I just don't see the point in the continual deflection nonsense along the lines of 'what about the westboro baptists' wherever Islamists are criticised... I mean would you carry on with the same sort of whataboutery in say a thread about the Catholic Church covering up the molestation of Children? If someone were to criticise the Catholic Church should we also be sure to bring up irrelevant examples of other religions having issues? It certainly seems to happen in threads like these re: Islamists.
Perhaps therefore you should stick with what I've posted rather than projecting..
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I'd disagree, I know a few Libyans that very much disagree with the removal of Gadaffi. It very much depended on which tribe you associate with and what area of the country you are from.
Quite possibly, but at the same time how many times do you have to repeat an experiment with the same variables and results before you are classed as a fool for continuing with it?
We invaded Afghanistan and effected regime change, then decided before we had even finished in Afghanistan, to invade Iraq for regime change. We then spent 8 years trying to put the lid back on the kettle we had just boiled before deciding we should effect regime change in Libya - and got the same results. Now some are insisting we should be doing the same in Syria...
We have ample experience that our recipe doesn't ******* work, yet still people want to repeat the experiment, because, you know it may work this time...
So as I said before how many times do we need to repeat the experiment before those people finally realise we need to change the variables?
What those variables are I don't know, but just repeating the same mistakes certainly isn't the solution.
Polish PM: Europe, rise from your knees or you'll be crying for your children every day
German Finance Minister: Christians have a lot to learn from Muslim migrants, including 'tolerance'
Two contrasting views from European ministers there. Wonder which one will be right...
German Finance Minister: Christians have a lot to learn from Muslim migrants, including 'tolerance'
Two contrasting views from European ministers there. Wonder which one will be right...
Except that was no AK combat rifle. Looked more like a 0.5" calibre general purpose machine gun to my inexperienced eye.
Schäuble sounds like he is trolling on purpose.
Your clutching at straws, my original comment was nothing more than a general tidbit, you've completely overblown it by trying to pick holes in it.
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Well you don't have to look too far to find anti-Western literature: http://www.islamireland.ie/site/assets/files/1181/adultery_and_fornication_in_islam.pdf
From The Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland:
So is it our foreign policy or our immoral western lifestyle which victimises Muslims to blame for radicalisation? Both? Burkas for everyone then!
From The Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland:
So is it our foreign policy or our immoral western lifestyle which victimises Muslims to blame for radicalisation? Both? Burkas for everyone then!