Soldato
I dont have the figures but I'd expect its higher tbh.
Manual driver to Automatic DSG
- Thread starter ChrisLandin
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Fundamentally automatic gearboxes make sense, barring a few edge cases manual gearboxes are largely an anachronism born out of a necessity that is no longer a constraint.
Logically, all you really need in terms of moving a car around is a way of changing speed and changing direction. The minutiae of how the car actually changes speed under the hood shouldn't really be the concern of the driver as technology improves, they just need to instruct it to go faster, maintain speed or go slower. But because people are used to manual gearboxes they've probably learned to like some of the 'driving feel' this provides.
Logically, all you really need in terms of moving a car around is a way of changing speed and changing direction. The minutiae of how the car actually changes speed under the hood shouldn't really be the concern of the driver as technology improves, they just need to instruct it to go faster, maintain speed or go slower. But because people are used to manual gearboxes they've probably learned to like some of the 'driving feel' this provides.
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Logical conclusion of automatics is a cvt .. but could you pack more than 9 gears into the available casing/space,
but keeping the engine in the optimal power/efficiency band is a principal benefit - cvt has that nailed, Honda ones still sound whiny though
but keeping the engine in the optimal power/efficiency band is a principal benefit - cvt has that nailed, Honda ones still sound whiny though
Or just switch to electric motors and need nothing but a reduction gear
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Or just switch to electric motors and need nothing but a reduction gear
There is at least one electric super car that has an additional 2 stage gearbox in the drivetrain for performance reasons. Can’t remember it without googling but I’m assuming in normal electrics it just isn’t worth the hassle for any efficiency gains it could bring in the speed ranges we use…
I think that's just to increase the top end massively isn't it? Most plebian EV drives will top out at ~110mph due to motors hitting their max speed.
That's too fast anyway, I think all cars should be limited to 70mph but that's a discussion for another topic
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I think that's just to increase the top end massively isn't it? Most plebian EV drives will top out at ~110mph due to motors hitting their max speed.
That's too fast anyway, I think all cars should be limited to 70mph but that's a discussion for another topic
Why wouldn’t I want my Volvo in drag to be doing more than 110…
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Car manufacturers will have a contract for the supply of components such as gearboxes which will last the expected production length of that platform. This means you'll often get things like gearboxes remaining in production sometimes long after the replacement is released because often it isn't easy for the manufacturer to re-engineer the platform to fit the new product.
Therefore an old gearbox product will end production not when its replacement is available but when the last supply contract expires. In this case it meant that the 5 speed gearbox continued in production for a further 8 years after it was replaced by the 6 speed.
This doesn't change the reality that this was a product for the 1990's which was replaced in 2000 and gearbox technology has moved on a long way since then.
Or just switch to electric motors and need nothing but a reduction gear
Or get the Koenigsegg Regera hybrid which is also single speed.
Mrs is set against DSG, but this is how i explain it to her!
What I don't like about CVT is the noise, they whine and I hate it. The ones I've tried also are slow to slow down when the foot is off the accelerator, forcing use of the brake pedal more often
Or just switch to electric motors and need nothing but a reduction gear
EVs with manual gearboxes are coming; well not exactly manual as in a clutch, but probably will have paddles to "change gears"
With fake, simulated gearboxes to appease dinosaurs who want to drink petrol*
It would be largely pointless. The first electric golf had a manual box and you just used third for everything.
IMO the full simulation of a manual including simulated sound when you run out of torque, etc. is utterly laughable, but there are some features of it which actually make some sense like being able to influence the level of engine braking being employed, etc. via manual changes.
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I've had several manuals over my life and thought I'd give auto a go. I've now had two of different types and have some strong opinions:
VAG DSG (Seat Leon) - Only good once you're already moving. Changes are very quick and smooth, car was economical, and it was nice to drive on long journeys. When you're at a standstill or trying to do low speed manouvering it was crap. Jerky and annoying, especially when trying to parallel park on a hill. As it won't slip the clutch the hill hold would keep kicking in and you can't modulate it on the brake very much. The car would either go, or stop. There was also a reasonable delay when trying to pull away quickly. Was also prone to spinning the wheels as it basically dumps the clutch in first gear on quick getaways. Very frustrating in slippery/bad weather conditions.
ZF 8 Speed (BMW M240i) - Excellent at low speed manouvering and town work as it uses a torque converter. This means it's always trying to drive the car forward/backward and you can modulate it easily on the brake. Was also very good on the motorway. Less economical but not by much and the driving experience more than makes up for it. It isn't perfect by any means, when slowing down for a roundabout, if I quickly jump back over to the throttle and it hasn't made up it's mind what gear it wants, there can be a noticable and frustrating delay before it goes. Also the shifts from 1-2 on a cold start and light throttle can be quite jerky, but I've since tuned the gearbox and now in most scenarios it pulls away in 2nd gear, which is better. Pulling away from a stop is so much smoother in a torque converter gearbox.
Skoda Fabia auto (GF car) - This is an older, torque converter box. It's very smooth and has the same benefits at low speed manouvering as the ZF, which is perfect for my other half who isn't the most confident of drivers. I think the DSG would be too jerky at low speed for her to feel comfortable with parking etc. They're just easier and more predictable to drive.
My friend has had a Golf GTI and an RS3 and has the same issues with DSGs as me. Another friend has an A45 with a Mercedes dual clutch, and it definitely seems better than the VAG box, but I've not had any personal experience with it.
VAG DSG (Seat Leon) - Only good once you're already moving. Changes are very quick and smooth, car was economical, and it was nice to drive on long journeys. When you're at a standstill or trying to do low speed manouvering it was crap. Jerky and annoying, especially when trying to parallel park on a hill. As it won't slip the clutch the hill hold would keep kicking in and you can't modulate it on the brake very much. The car would either go, or stop. There was also a reasonable delay when trying to pull away quickly. Was also prone to spinning the wheels as it basically dumps the clutch in first gear on quick getaways. Very frustrating in slippery/bad weather conditions.
ZF 8 Speed (BMW M240i) - Excellent at low speed manouvering and town work as it uses a torque converter. This means it's always trying to drive the car forward/backward and you can modulate it easily on the brake. Was also very good on the motorway. Less economical but not by much and the driving experience more than makes up for it. It isn't perfect by any means, when slowing down for a roundabout, if I quickly jump back over to the throttle and it hasn't made up it's mind what gear it wants, there can be a noticable and frustrating delay before it goes. Also the shifts from 1-2 on a cold start and light throttle can be quite jerky, but I've since tuned the gearbox and now in most scenarios it pulls away in 2nd gear, which is better. Pulling away from a stop is so much smoother in a torque converter gearbox.
Skoda Fabia auto (GF car) - This is an older, torque converter box. It's very smooth and has the same benefits at low speed manouvering as the ZF, which is perfect for my other half who isn't the most confident of drivers. I think the DSG would be too jerky at low speed for her to feel comfortable with parking etc. They're just easier and more predictable to drive.
My friend has had a Golf GTI and an RS3 and has the same issues with DSGs as me. Another friend has an A45 with a Mercedes dual clutch, and it definitely seems better than the VAG box, but I've not had any personal experience with it.
Or it's just to bring some fun back to driving and is completely optional? If you don't want to use it you don't have to. I love the idea as you can have two cars in one. The Ioniq 5 N or whatever it's called does a great job at this, but the sounds through the stereo need to get better as they are naff.
Personally I much prefer the slightly older TCs, especially those designed for performance cars, the only down side that they feel like they are holding in gear longer than they should, but no issues with low speed manoeuvring or hills, smooth and responsive through a range of driving conditions and in 10s of thousands of miles only managed to confuse them a couple of times and only one of those I think was actually down to the automatic.
Personally really hate simulated sound even when it might be convincing, it is still like sitting there with a kids toy going brrrm brrrm. Give me the real thing or not at all.
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The BMW ix1 has a mode that mimics driving an automatic. The piped in sound is a bit much. I’m looking forward to the see what BMW do with the new class. It might put BMW back on the map.