Marvel Studios: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

I only tend to quote if it's not the previous post. I can edit it if it's more clear to you.

'go down the whole black storyline' that is one hell of a phrase. Would you have been happier if Sam pretended he was white?
 
Shamikebab said:
I only tend to quote if it's not the previous post. I can edit it if it's more clear to you.

'go down the whole black storyline' that is one hell of a phrase. Would you have been happier if Sam pretended he was white?
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See this is what happens when you try to quote a segment of the post (inaccurately) without the full context of said post.... it's almost like you're doing things on purpose to try and push a false representation of the comments being made....

I'll quote the entire part of my post, with your selective quoting highlighted, then people can see it in context...
Introducing the black super soldier, fair enough, his grandson has a future role in the MCU, same as Joagquin (Sam's military buddy) in fact, but they didn't need to go down the whole 'black' story line in the way that they did. Basically it's not about the content (most of what they said is accurate in America), it's about the way it's added into the show.
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Perhaps you need to explain yourself more clearly. I don't see how the full quote makes it any better. What exactly don't you like about having Sam's race be part of his story?
 
Shamikebab said:
Perhaps you need to explain yourself more clearly. I don't see how the full quote makes it any better. What exactly don't you like about having Sam's race be part of his story?
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If you can't understand my posts I can't really help you any further, it really does seem like you're more interested in trying to twist things into something they're not.
 
lsg1r said:
If you can't understand my posts I can't really help you any further, it really does seem like you're more interested in trying to twist things into something they're not.
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Ok then, someone asks you to expand on your post and you get all weird and defensive. You said it wasn't what they did but the way they did it but when I ask you to explain what you mean you won't?
 
Shamikebab said:
Ok then, someone asks you to expand on your post and you get all weird and defensive. You said it wasn't what they did but the way they did it but when I ask you to explain what you mean you won't?
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That's not what you asked....

I'm not going to expand on anything because I can already see what you're trying to do it really is that simple.
 
Let's be honest shall we...the show just wasnt't that good. 5/10 for overall. Wont ever watch it again.

And i'll keep saying; Mackie isn't a good actor...at all. Everyone one sees it but i guess they have to double down on him now. New suit.....**** me...i thought it was a joke when i first saw it and hoped the real new suit would appear at the end. Jesus. Doesn't fit him and just looks trash.
 
So
robgmun said:
It's been like that in the comic world for the past decade and the sales of these comics has plummeted. Everyone is either now black or female and often both. And it looks like the MCU is going to repeat the same mistake. It's really boring to me that almost every new series on TV, in general, is either black or female for the past 12 to 18 months. And now the MCU is jumping on the bandwagon when a lot of people I know are already fed up with it. Look forward to everyone being wonderfully diverse, you can have any color you like as long as you're not white.

I'm even more convinced now Endgame was the peak and we're going to see the slow slide on the movie front. I'm only interested in about half scheduled releases on the slate.
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I mean the comics aren't like that though are they?

X-Men? Cyclops, Jean Grey, Wolverine, Gambit, Rogue... And Storm. They just had a fan vote for a new member and it was Polaris so yeah.

They've had black and female versions of sole characters but to be fair to them they've actually developed these characters well and never out right replaced an original. You had Sam as Cap for a while whilst Steve was down. You had Jane as Thor but again only whilst real Thor was down. You have Miles but he's not replaced Spiderman he's supplementary and his ongoing series is really, really good. Hawkeye is working with Kate Bishop... The comics handle it fairly well in the main. That's also not mentioning Fantastic Four or heck even current Avengers line up which is 4 white men, 2 black men and 2 women. Angry nerds screaming are weirdos and not the basis of a sound arguement, at times I'm not even sure it's diversity with them more that anyone dated to touched the character they are creepily attached to.

The issue with the cinematic is that it feels a bit forced and all at once. So next avengers looks like at the minute being Cap (Sam) Thor (Jane) Ironheart (black female Iron Man) She Hulk, Hawkeye (Kate) Ms Marvel and or Cap Marvel and probably Spiderman who they will almost certainly use as comic relief. It's a pretty vast change quite quickly but let's see.

I'm just looking forward to seeing how they introduce the X titles into it all and whether or not they follow the new Hickman Krakoa arcs which would be fascinating.
 
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I’m hoping Loki has a few more comedy moments, I found this very serious and only good, not great. Also I really don’t see Sharon Carter as a villain. This is someone Fury entrusted with Caps bodyguard and who had Cap’s back throughout TWS and Civil War, now she’s the enemy? Nah, don’t see it. They could have introduced another villain easily or had Zemo as the big boss after all or even someone new like Julia Dreyfuss’s character playing both sides or something.
 
Is it me or do others actually not even think about peoples skin colour when watching movies or tv shows? If there is a story about race yeah sure there will be a black/asian/hispanic etc in there but on the whole actors/characters skin colour has zero interest for me. I really enjoyed this show and I am looking forward to the other shows and movies coming out. I did post earlier in this thread regarding race and how I didn't see anything about race in it. I now see I was wrong after the last few episodes but still if its about race theres going to be actors of different colours.

Its a bit like the ghostbusters film the other year with all the females, everyone up in arms over it. I enjoyed it, my 6 year old enjoyed it and he liked the original 2 movies as well. He didnt mention once asking why there are female ghosbusters and a 'token' black actor as they seem to be nowadays. I really hope he grows up to be not asking those questions and enjoys these shows and movies for what they are and not question why there are more black actors than white and why so many females...

Very sad.
 
No1newts said:
The issue with the cinematic is that it feels a bit forced and all at once. So next avengers looks like at the minute being Cap (Sam) Thor (Jane) Ironheart (black female Iron Man) She Hulk, Hawkeye (Kate) Ms Marvel and or Cap Marvel and probably Spiderman who they will almost certainly use as comic relief. It's a pretty vast change quite quickly but let's see.
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And don't forget Shuri touted as being the new Black Panther. And despite you saying that it was all handled well in the comics that hasn't stopped the sales sliding and it's in a bit of a crisis but they're trying to keep a lid on it.

After the Black Widow movie (which really should have happened before Endgame instead of Cap Marvel) The only movies I'm really interested in are Spiderman, Dr. Strange and GOTG. Thor and She-Hulk I'll keep an eye on depending on the trailer and how they handle it but that's about it. The more I see and hear of Eternals the worse it gets
 
Droolinggimp said:
Is it me or do others actually not even think about peoples skin colour when watching movies or tv shows? If there is a story about race yeah sure there will be a black/asian/hispanic etc in there but on the whole actors/characters skin colour has zero interest for me. I really enjoyed this show and I am looking forward to the other shows and movies coming out. I did post earlier in this thread regarding race and how I didn't see anything about race in it. I now see I was wrong after the last few episodes but still if its about race theres going to be actors of different colours.

Very sad.
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Up until say 5 years ago, no one cared because often it was organic. In the 80's we had female action stars and no one batted an eyelid. Heck Riply is loved by all movie buffs. It's only recently people are noticing because it's got to the stage there has been a load of gender swapping in movies and THEY make a huge point about it, so it's signaling to everyone that this is a big deal. When GB2016 came out THEY made a big deal out it, When WW woman they made a big deal out of it (although Gal Godot really handled it wonderfully) and when Cap Marvel they really hamfistedly made a HUGE deal out it and Brie Larson came out it looking like a total bitch in the end. And in the TV space, a vast majority of leads recently are almost ALL female (there seems to be a trend of "Magical Girl" series coming out every other week)

You can't blame people for taking notice and pushing back a bit when it's all done so hamfistedly and a total swap like No1newts mentions. Where's the balance? The trick with diversity is that it needs to include everyone and I think the creators have lost what the meaning of the word actually means these days. You have to realize in the western world 85% are still white and half of those are men. So in the end there's not much out there that they feel speaks to them, and I see people grumbling about it a lot recently.

You'll see, the MCU has peaked. It still has a good few years left in it but unless they don't disappear up their own asses they won;t be pulling billion dollar movies anymore.
 
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robgmun said:
You have to realize in the western world 85% are still white and half of those are men. So in the end there's not much out there that they feel speaks to them, and I see people grumbling about it a lot recently.
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:cry:

When is somebody going to think about the white men? They're so oppressed :D
 
Sure it wasn't the best series that has ever been made, but still enjoyed it nonetheless.

Occasionally the dialogue was a bit too simplistic/ham fisted (which is strange because with the time of 6 episodes it would be nice to spend more time in a show don't tell mode), but absolutely the idea Sam Wilson, in a post snap world, taking up the mantle of Cap should mean that the storyline focuses on race relations and what it means to represent the US as a black man.

Looking forward to seeing where they go with this, I loved some of the moves that he could pull off with both wings and a shield. I think Sam has had a relatively light touch on the MCU overall, so if he is key to the next set of phases I'm sure we will see more character growth and conflict.
 
I don’t mind Mackie and I like Sam, but I’ll say it again I don’t think he’ll ever fill Evans boots in that role. The guy nailed it for 10 years and his earnest speeches sounded like they had emotional and moral heft. It’s too much of an uphill battle, they need to super charge the character to keep him relevant and try not to lay Steve Rogers mantle on him or it’ll sink.

I’m still liking MCU TV looking forward to Loki real possibilities with this character and actor.
 
Shamikebab said:
:cry:

When is somebody going to think about the white men? They're so oppressed :D
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I would suggest that, as it's those "oppressed" white men who spend the most on these comic-based franchises, making things that alienate this huge spending group is business suicide, as repeatedly shown by so many "get woke go broke" stories in cinema, TV, comics etc.

Instead if a business wants to actually turn a profit, they should concentrate on making stuff the vast spending majority like with an organic diversity of well written characters who aren't defined by a single objective (their skin colour, gender, sexual orientation etc) rather than the stories made by the current generation of so many story tellers.

If however the company doesn't want to run a profit, then by all means I hope keep making things for the small minority who don't actually buy the things that they rant on Twitter about :D
 
Some god awful dialogue in this show. They keep trying to spell it out for the audience instead of letting them figure it out themselves. Didn't really enjoy it but hey not for me I guess.

In saying that I did really enjoy the statue bit at the end. That was rather touching.

Very disappointed in the Marvel TV so far.

Apart from Thanos, Winter soldier, Loki and Hela struggling for really decent and well done Villains.
 
Bigpig said:
Some god awful dialogue in this show. They keep trying to spell it out for the audience instead of letting them figure it out themselves. Didn't really enjoy it but hey not for me I guess.

In saying that I did really enjoy the statue bit at the end. That was rather touching.

Very disappointed in the Marvel TV so far.

Apart from Thanos, Winter soldier, Loki and Hela struggling for really decent and well done Villains.
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I think wandavison did much better with the dialogue, and the ‘show dont tell’ aspect. This show was a lot weaker in that regard, and honestly felt a little out of place compared to some of the dialogue we have in the films (apart from the light comedic moment)... I’m not sure why.

Also, hey now Zeno was well done. So was the Vulture.
 
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