Mazda 3 MPS owners here?

Good evening,
I have just joined the forum after reading the posts above. There seems to be an abundance of experience and expertise here which I would like to take the liberty of tapping into.
My son and I are building a kit car(….groan). Early stages but our engine of choice has always been the Mazda MPS until recently after I seem to have read so much about it's fragility. Cost wise we are almost definitely limited to a Mazda 6. Most things have been covered in the previous 6 pages but could I ask a couple of questions please for clarity.
So, Mazda 6 MPS has same engine as Mazda 3 MPS mk1 and the ECU and piston upgrades were never applied to the 6 as they were to the mk2 Mazda 3, correct?

Is the "piston through the block" problem a direct result of stretched chain and timing jump or a different weakness?

Was the piston upgrade for durability or for burn efficiency, I read that they are dished for a specific burn pattern..? If for durability could I retro fit to a 6 engine or are there other stronger aftermarket replacements out there?

Our kit is a mid engine 2 wheel drive transverse arrangement. My understanding is that with e 6's 4wd system the drive to the rear wheels varies between 0 and 50% depending on traction of the wheels on the front axle. If the rear drive on the Mazda 6 is left unconnected as it would be in our car I assume I would have to lock the shaft to fool the gearbox into sending all power to the front? Does anyone have a good understanding of these gearboxes who could outline the implications of disconnecting the rear drive?

Finally, our alternative engine is an Audi 3.2 V6. same sort of power but NA. Has anyone owned both who could give an informed opinion as to which might suit our needs. I'm not a big fan of turbo lag but how big an issue is it with the Mazdas. I've driven a couple of Mazda CX7s to date but no 3s or 6s and there was a bit of lag. Not yet managed to drive the normally aspirated Audi for a comparison.

Any guidance and advice would be appreciated.
 
MPS's throwing a leg out of bed is well documented in Mk1/2 3's and 6's. I am not really aware of any piston changes between Mk1 and Mk2 3's.

Common train of thought is wide open throttle in high gears at revs below 3k. Torque low down seems to be what does it, which affects stock and remapped cars. Timing chains if they go can cause catastrophic engine problems, some cars have done 150k on stock timing chains and K04 turbos, others barely 60k. It is an engine that needs servicing every year to keep in tip top.

High Pressure Fuel Pump internal upgrades are a must if you want to tune it.
 
Zangie said:
Finally, our alternative engine is an Audi 3.2 V6. same sort of power but NA. Has anyone owned both who could give an informed opinion as to which might suit our needs. I'm not a big fan of turbo lag but how big an issue is it with the Mazdas. I've driven a couple of Mazda CX7s to date but no 3s or 6s and there was a bit of lag. Not yet managed to drive the normally aspirated Audi for a comparison.
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I have pretty limited experience but I know people with custom stage 2 remapped 6s power seems to come in 2 lumps - big burst of initial power (upto somewhere around 60mph/4500rpm or something IIRC but I'm just trying to remember off the top of my head) that can give even some pretty quick stuff a hard run off the line but then it seems to drop off before kicking in later again. Alternatively with a more linear power delivery it seems to have quite a bit of lag.

Personally I'm a fan of ~3L V6s so know what I'd do hah.
 
Avoid WOT below 2.5k rpm and you will be fine.

Tuning a 2.3 is also not as simple as one may expect, plenty of engine destroying moments have been caused by poor tuning.
 
Not sure about engine internals but the mk2 MPS did get a slightly more durable VVT components that lasted a bit longer than mk1 and 6 but I could be wrong.
Like everyone said, regular oil change & service (I do every 3000-5000 miles oil change) is key and do not WOT(foot flat) under 3k rpm and do not WOT in higher gear unless you are at the correct speed for it(over 100+ mph or something? Never tried) and tuning your only option now is the folks in the states like freektune,purple drank and few others I can't remember.
The local UK resident has stopped taking new customers now.
 
Thank you all for your responses.
So I am probably in a catch 22 situation where I need to find a good low mileage, well maintained car which will be over my budget as I'm only buying it to steal the drivetrain for our kit build. Cheapest option could be a CX7 or a salvage 3. Food for thought indeed.
Any one have any ideas about the gearbox question, ie consequences of running a 4wd box without the rear drive connected?

Thanks.
 
Honestly, why a MPS engine tho?

1) not normally used on a kit car (I'm not aware it's been used at all). Why not a common option used by Westfield, etc. (yes, yes, I know the present Westfield 250 uses a Focus ST Ecoboost engine, which is based on the Mazda L series engine)
2) it's quite rare, so commands a $ premium
3) it's got known issues with cars popping moderately often on facebook (combined with above keeps the price high)
4) it's not really special - it's not a great bhp/litre, or amazingly light weight.

So, unless you already have a MPS as a donor car (which it doesn't sound like), or you're an expert with the L3-VDT MPS engine (which also doesn't sound like it), then why?!?

a kit car is all about keeping the weight low, so why not a F20C from a S2000?
1) already used in Westfield Mega S2000, so some support there
2) similar power ~240bhp but without the turbo issues
3) lighter weight 326lb (148kg) vs 395lb (180kg)
4) reputation for being bulletproof and amazing
but, yes, it's also a rare/expensive engine...

but, I admit, I'm impartial... I had a 6MPS so know the engine pretty well and built a Westfield kitcar (with a F20C engine). I would 100% go down the F20C route again, between the 2... primary concern is power/weight - with a kitcar there's so little weight in the chassis and everything else, that every kg you can get from a lighter engine is ideal. Second concern is simplicity... you're going to be scratching your head why things aren't working, so try to keep it as simple as possible. FI is fine, but at least get the car working happily NA beforehand.

If the F20C doesn't appeal (due to it's rarity/cost) then look at other kitcars or performance light weight cars (e.g. Elise)... Honda's K Series is a massively popular engine series K20 or even a K24?!? Or Elise's 2ZZ?
 
Thanks DDR,
The MPS appeals or perhaps appealed is more appropriate at this point in time, because it's a 250 BHP plug and play lump. However I have always been troubled that a turbo charged engine would not be in keeping with the thrashy, noisy kit car that I envisage. And as someone said earlier in the thread.. the turbo shove can be both addictive and eventually boring if the overall driving experience suffers. It's not all about straight line power for us.

The Honda s200 engine would be ideal but has 2 drawbacks: cost and availability as you rightly point out, and secondly, we need a transverse configuration. Probably not too difficult to get a civic box to fit but a complication all the same.

Even since posting on this thread I am leaning much much further toward my second choice engine the VW/Audi 3.2 V6 (VR6). This has a couple of big advantages. Because it is the narrow angle V on a single combined cylinder head it's not much bigger than a 4 pot. And, quite significantly despite being a V6 all the exhaust ports are on the same side of the engine, facing backwards.

It ticks so many boxes although it doesn't have a great reputation for some reason. It's odd, on TT forums the swing is towards the turbo charged cars mainly because they are tunable but on VW forums the V6 can do no wrong!

And I have considered the Toyota 2ZZ aswell...still in the mix...maybe!
 
hey up people

I have a 6mps and recently got a map from freektune. After remapping using cobb and sending freektune data logs, he mentioned how I am not holding boost.
Can anyone shed light to why I cannot hold boost? is it the turbo, which is a ko4 and new when I did a rebuild back in Jan? is there a leak at the BOV or wastegate?

Any help will much appreciated.

BTW the car is fully stock apart from a hpfp
 
I'd start by looking for any boost leaks.

Make sure the recirc has the little rubber O Ring still, as these can go AWOL when you take them off.
 
Haha no. I sold it for like £2k. I don't think it's worth more than say £3k if very lucky. I tried privately for a little while but just had the usual tyre kickers.

mk2 examples are cheaper with lower mileage etc... but I was thinking about it. If he's prepared to hold onto it for a while and deal with all the chancers maybe he'll get someone that does a "fast car <£8k within 20 miles" search on Autotrader. They might not even realise they typically go for much less.

I wonder if the dealer overpaid. The recovery agent guy that picked it up said they typically go to Copart but I never saw it come up there so no idea which auction house he bought it from.
 
Honestly, I wonder if book price is wrong on these somehow (have no idea how it works). Last year when I checked the offers were like £700 from WBAC etc. When I saw £2k I thought I might as well get rid. I was barely using the thing besides a supermarket trip every 10 days or so just to keep it ticking over.
 
Jester* said:
That is incredibly......optimistic of the dealer. I hope you managed to get strong money if that is what they have it up for!
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Hugely for a Mk1

Th dealer might've not really known what it was and hasn't noticed there's a gaping hope in the bonnet lol!
Mind you saying that, that colour was Mk1 only
Could they be usig it as a tax write off somehow :/

You should've hoped on the MPS forums, might've got it sold on there too.

Really regret selling my 6, told the lad I sold it to that if he ever sells it to let me know haha.
Despite buying a new car recently Id still have it back without a second thought.

Just noticed tho...
In the ad for more info goto: www.freewaycarsales.co.uk
I'm on your site you muppets :D
 
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